AIBU No going back to school I’m furious.

Ellianne.not to labour the point but government has said no to certain measures , it’s not all up to individual schools, those days are long gone
Schools and teachers are constrained by government decisions often made by wonderful characters like mr gove who have no idea of what it is like “at the chalk face”
Grow stuff makes a very valid point about TA s. How would you suggest they deal with vulnerable, challenging children?

I think opening the school for a longer day is possible. It would however need extra staff. For example, in my old UK school, my old classroom was only big enough for about 10/12 students with the new regulations. My Y10 class had 34 students in it. That would be three shifts of students. My room was only empty previously for 3 lessons a week.

If the day was extended, and if the NUMBER of lessons a week per subject were reduced (currently it is preset, the school doesn't chose how much English to teach for example), it would be possible to have morning and afternoon school.

If we started at 7.30am and ended at 7.30pm, it would be possible. But you'd need between 30 & 50% more teachers to cover the extra lessons. Not possible for a teacher to teach that much because it wouldn't allow any time to prepare lessons, marking, data entry and all of the other totally unnecessary admin teachers have forced on them.

A lesson takes on average between 30 & 60 mins to plan and resource. There is some reusing possible BUT the government keep changing the syllabus so we can't do that as much as people who don't work in education think we can.

We already have a teacher shortage in the UK, thanks to underfunding. You'd need a massive recruitment drive to staff it.

Bring all the OFSTED inspectors nationwide in to actually teach.

There are currently 2300 Ofsted inspectors. It's estimated that an additional 250,000 adults are needed.

Exactly growstuff. What I WOULD say, however, is that there will be a very large bank of older teachers who have been forced out (for being old and expensive) and also teachers who usually work overseas who are trapped in the UK due to border closures who could be recruited.

What is really needed is a massive shift away from overloading teachers with cr*p that schools have to produce as 'evidence' and to JUST let them teach, plan and mark. I estimate getting rid of everything else would free up at least 5 hours a week.

Who's going to pay for them Gagajo? I don't think I'd even go back if I were paid, as I am at high risk, but I certainly wouldn't volunteer to put my life on the line.

Not only that, but there would still be a shortage of teachers in STEM subjects.

Having spent part of my working life recruiting supply teachers, the quality is (I'm afraid to say) somewhat variable.

I know, but Grandad wanted solutions. I'm coming up with solutions.

Recruitment is a totally different issue!

They COULD take data/meetings/duties away from teachers and hire other staff for those jobs. It always seemed counterintuitive to me to make highly paid staff do a duty, when you could hire someone on a lower wage to do it.

I was thinking of some of the schools I worked in when I did supply work. I was sent into some of the most difficult city schools. I coped but only just. Some of the challenging behaviour had to be seen to be believed. I don't know how those children will cope with or accept social distancing. They continually take risks with their lives anyway. (like a 7 year old who climbed out his bedroom window in the night) They are frequently agressive and confrontational and will fight with each other over the smallest thing. The teachers who work with them are highly skilled and resiliant but it is incredibly difficult and where the extra staff needed for small classes would come from I really don't know.

At the risk of being accused of being negative, a few things that non-educators (ie the govt) need to bear in mind.

Supply teachers were deemed a no-no as they travel from school to school, and could be perceived as spreading the virus.

Having done a bit of supply, pupils don't really respond to teachers they know don't know the school. Imo the best supply teachers are those who work regularly in the school. A better way would be like NHS recruiting student nurses, those in training to be teachers.

Retired teachers - over 60 or older - who've worked for decades in schools would lose part of their pension, ie be working for next to nothing, if they did more than 8(?) days a month.

Exactly GagaJo, if all those drifters, plus inspectors, plus willing retirees could be drafted in, then that would be a start. As you say, let's look for possible solutions not negatives and reasons why we cant.

Which drifters?

There are approximately half a million teachers in the UK. In order to take half-sized classes, that number needs to be doubled - plus the space to teach the pupils.

As I've mentioned, there are 2,300 Ofsted inspectors. Most retired teachers will be over 60, which means they have additional risks, even if they don't have health issues. Those who took early retirement are sick to death of teaching and very few would want to return to an even worse environment than they left.

Sorry, but this is pie in the sky. The numbers just don't add up.

The only way to give all pupils some school experience is to have them for half the time, which the government doesn't seem to want. Presumably the herd immunity advocates couldn't care less about the risks and had hoped that the public would blame teachers.

El liane Please read chardys post and trisher s.

Every single time I was OFSTEDed as a secondary head of dept (5x in different schools), he (always a he) had been a secondary head who hadn't taught a full timetable in the previous 20 years. Trust me, it is highly unlikely they'd go back to teaching.
I retired 5 yrs ago. I've lost all my skills, I couldn't teach now. Frankly once you've been out the classroom a year or 2...

(Btw GagaJo, I disagree about being on duty before/after school and break times; to do that effectively in a secondary school, authority and knowing a lot of pupils' names is required, so it needs to be a teacher)

I agree with you absolutely Chardy. I've been out of the classroom for 7 years and loads has changed. I do private tuition, which I can still do because I haven't lost my subject knowledge or basic skills. I use to be an examiner and I still write teaching materials. I keep up-to-date by belonging to various online groups, but I've seen things change and I don't know how much longer I can keep up.

My daughter's first post-graduation job was with Ofsted and they cleared out loads of the dead wood, but even so, the inspectors are judged more on their management skills (allegedly) than their classroom teaching skills.

I agree with you about "duties". I've witnessed first hand what happened when secondary schools brought in contract invigilators for exams and cover supervisors. People thought it was going to be an easy job for pin money, but really didn't know what they were letting themselves in for. More often or not, teachers had to be on call to deal with the disruptive pupils.

Ok so if all the proposed possible solutions in this thread, (some drawn from schools abroad and from other sectors), are not feasible and also met with derision and scoffing, can someone please tell us what the solution for the UK is?
I have to say I am glad I was never taught by such negative, inflexible, doom and gloom teachers. We need educationalists and school managers whose attitude engenders entrepreneurial skills and practical solutions for the sake of all our children and grandchildren.

can someone please tell us what the solution for the UK is?
No, because Wales is making different arrangements.
Possibly Scotland and Northern Ireland are too.

You are discussing English schools.

OK English then?

How is it negative, inflexible and doom and gloom-laden to point out the facts, which are that double the amount of space and number of adults are needed for all pupils to return to a full time timetable?

Other issues such as number of toilets, hand washing stations, not sharing equipment, extra cleaning, masks etc can probably be overcome with funding and good planning, but the bottom line is that schools need extra space and teachers. Quarts will never fit into a pint pot!

Come up with a feasible solution and I'm sure teachers would listen.

PS. I don't suppose Wales, Scotland or NI have magic wands (or tardises) either.

Did you say that to the care home staff when they pointed out their concerns.
How negative of them to raise concerns about the governments handling of the situation in their sector. They should have just been more positive.

Think exhibition centres, meeting halls, conference centres, hotels, marquee tents etc. They have to find the extra space somewhere.
Use TAs, most are brilliant, working under the direction of a qualified teacher, get peripatetic staff in to cover their specialities, Music, Drama, Art, Sport etc. They can all offer a broad balanced curriculum.
Or go for the rota system if the number of teachers is the biggest problem.

You are breaking government guidelines with those suggestions. Children must remain with the same consistent adult to limit spread of infection. You cant bring other adults into the bubble.

If that had been the suggestion put forward by my sons school I would not be sending him in tomorrow. Thankfully they appear to understand the issues of infection control.