AIBU No going back to school I’m furious.

Grandad I wonder if you have ever worked in the higher (or even lower) echelons of education?

Dealing with children is not really the same as dealing with HGV drivers. I do know both species and they are quite different.
Although, of course, HGV drivers were children at some point.

There are practical problems. The Government guidelines say no more than 15 in a class and most classes have 30 children so that means there aren't enough teachers or classrooms. My grandchildrens school is very small and they just don't have the spacebircthw staff for any more children apart from key workers children. . Also they have to adapt the classrooms, stagger pick up and drop off, playtime and meal times etc so groups of children don't mix. It's very complex.
Also the issue is not the risk to the child but the risk to staff who will be in close contact with the children and also the risk to the children's families. Children tend not to become ill with Covid but they can get it and spread it without anyone realising it.

Schools, and in particular Headteachers, have had weeks to plan and make provision for a return to school.
That doesn't help if you physically do not have the space to open and follow Government guidelines.

It's not possible to plan when you have no idea what the guidelines may eventually turn out to be!

I believe we are coming to the crux of the debate in this thread. First of all, there is a belief within the educational establishment that no one outside that establishment cannot and should not have any input into that sector as all knowledge lays within.

The above is total nonsense, as all other industries and sectors use consultation with outside bodies at various times and in various situations which is very much to their benefit when wider reference is necessary.

We also witness from a number of posts in this thread that the concern is not so much in regard to infection of the pupils while in attendance at schools but the infection of the teaching staff.

Should those working in hospitals, supermarkets and refuge collection etc have taken the same stance and attitude, all those sectors and industries would have not remained anywhere near fully operational and this nation would have been unable to cope and sustain itself.

The above is the real truth in the school situation.

First of all, there is a belief within the educational establishment that no one outside that establishment cannot and should not have any input into that sector as all knowledge lays within.

WRONG. How many times have I asked you to make suggestions? I reiterate, Grandad - HOW DO YOU THINK SCHOOLS CAN ADAPT TO COPE WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION?

You constantly repeating yourself and listening to NOTHING anyone else says is not normal behaviour.

Children may not easily become ill with Covid19, but they are ‘superspreaders.’ This means that if a child picks up the infection and shows no, or few symptoms, that they spread it amongst all their classmates, who then take it home and spread it to their families, who may be key workers, or recently returned to work, and then at the weekend they visit Granny in her garden, and that’s how the infection spreads. Children can NOT be compared to lorry drivers in any way, they behave differently, which is why they are superspreaders! This isn’t rocket science, and shouldn’t need to be explained. Of course teachers and Teaching Assistants are at risk too, but that is not why school staff are saying it’s difficult to take all the children back to school. Teachers and TAs have been working all through this crisis, both in schools and from home, giving Zoom lessons and phone calls and so on. My teacher niece has been working the entire time, including during the school holidays, both in school with key worker children and at home digitally.
It is not acceptable to ‘teacher bash’ because children are not in school. They have been working extremely hard throughout the crisis.

Grandad1943 I must admit teachers have found themselves becoming more and more unpopular as time has gone on, and this is partly due to the comparison with other key workers you mention above. In some ways I feel sorry for them that they have been given no clear plan to follow, but there is now a justified and palpable feeling of impatience and resentment towards them. Maybe if we could speak to a younger group of teachers (30's and 40's) who are at far less risk, we might hear a bit more frustration and a stronger desire to get schools reopened?

Agree Gagajo

Teachers want to educate children, they are amongst the most dedicated professionals in this country, and do not deserve to be maligned. Safeguarding is extremely important in the educational establishment and teachers are passionate about keeping children safe at all times.

Thank you maddyone. Exactly why I enjoyed (mostly) online teaching while I was shielding. I enjoy engaging with my students. I missed them during lockdown.

maddyone yes, they are.
Those I know are not at all happy with the situation, want to get back to normality and doing the best for their pupils.
Added to which they have been in constant touch with their pupils, sending out and marking work and trying to make plans for a safe return without much government guidance.

DD said it was more difficult teaching online through the internet and sending out work than face to face interaction.

I do wonder if some older pupils may be assuring their parents that school has not bothered to send out work for them when in fact they have.

Someone previously said here that only 33% of the children are currently attending school. If tourism is allowed to start on July 4th as planned, won't that mean there's no point in a return to school because families will be rushing off on those longed for holidays at the coast? There might only be a handful of pupils left per class.

Callistemon. You make a good point. It’s hard enough persuading some teenagers to do schoolwork at the best of times ! My partner’s year 10 grandson pretty much admits he hasn’t done much if any of the work provided.
The government in my opinion needs to either give achievable guidelines and the necessary finance or give schools carte blanche to make their own decisions.

Quite right Lucca.

Callistemon Maybe some parents have realised that some of their children are not the highly motivated, well behaved pupils they like to think they are. Just maybe they will realise how much teachers do to cajole, encourage and support pupils to make the progress they do.

On a local Facebook group, I've seen parents complaining that teachers have contacted them to inform them that their offspring have not been doing the work set. They'd be the first ones to complain that their children's progress has suffered. Schools have been doing what they can to support those who have done little work, but you can't take a horse to water. Unfortunately, parents are sometimes part of the problem. As a former teacher it was ever thus and schools are faced with a dilemma. Who has the right to force a child to do academic work? The parents/carers or the schools?

I have had two students who did not attend a SINGLE online lesson, who did not even LOOK (I can check) at the work set. Upon returning to school, she avoided the work right until I was physically back in the classroom (they returned to school 3 weeks before I physically arrived). And then wondered why she didn't do well in her oral exam! The others worked very hard towards it. Online 121 tutorials. Emailing in questions. Putting together a draft oral speech.

If I get this from students in an extremely expensive school, of course you'll get it from state school students.

Ellianne, your suggestion that key worker children be gathered in one school building, rather than 'dotted about' was discussed by our local head teachers. The decision was to try to keep children in familiar environments, with friends and their own class teacher where ever possible. In my view that's the right decision. It's child rather than money centred.

One of our grandchildren returned two weeks ago. Both parents are key workers and had been trying to avoid sending their two back to school and nursery exactly because the initial information was they wouldn't be in their own school building, with any familiar staff or children. That, combined with the risks of children mixing with others led to the impossible situation of two key worker parents with no support at all. That situation is not unique. The invisible army of grandparents who usually prop up the economy by offering free child care is no longer available.

It would be very different if schools were air conditioned airy spaces with large rooms, good air flow and large corridors but they are not. They are ideal spaces for getting a large viral load and hence are dangerous to any adult

So now it is all the children and their parent's failures, and nothing whatsoever to do with the teachers who judging by this thread have never had an original idea between them.

Just more excuses, excuses.

Grandad1943

So now it is all the children and their parent's failures, and nothing whatsoever to do with the teachers who judging by this thread have never had an original idea between them.

Just more excuses, excuses.

That’s really rude . Teachers have spent the last weeks having to come up with totally new ways of teaching and staying in touch with their students. Have you ever taught say 9 or 10 different secondary classes of varying ability and then had to completely change the way you teach them ? Teachers may well have faults just like any other workers but lack of creativity And original thought is NOT one of them.

I am not a teacher or part of this fantasy educational establishment. I am a parent. No one is blaming parents. They are scared and its going to take a bit of time. Three years in my sons school have returned. The take up has been less than half in my sons year and fewer in the younger years.

You wonder why people want children to go to school when schools/ teachers are so useless.
You also wonder why there is a teacher shortage when teaching is such a doddle.

There are a whole raft of folk who find a it a lot easier not to send children to school. No getting up early! No chasing round for homework or pe kit! Watch tv all day! Home schooling has its attractions.

Grandad1943, I haven't ignored you, despite your repetitive comments until now, but I'm going to start.

No one is blaming parents. And we shouldn't be blaming teachers either. Teachers have ZERO say in how schools are run.

It is a very difficult situation. Teachers are TRAINED to make reluctant students work. Sometimes it is like putting a horse on a saline drip, rather than leading it to the water. BUT teachers are more likely to be able to get children over a certain age to work than parents (I speak as a teacher and a parent). It is a lot more difficult through a screen though.

Can we not forget, we're in the middle of a pandemic? Some children will have been hugely affected by this. We're in the 'trying to keep everyone alive' stage. That includes children, families and school staff. If we can keep learning going, perfect! Teachers very much want this. But children can only learn when all of their basic needs are being met. And currently, a lot of them don't feel safe.

I wouldn't wish the fear I'm feeling at the moment about developing C19 from contact with a student who has tested positive on anyone.