AIBU No going back to school I’m furious.

The shift system would only work if the classroom could be deep-cleaned in between the morning and afternoon shifts.

Btw the last time I checked (which was a while ago) central govt weren't offering financial help with either extra cleaning stuff or extra cleaning hours' pay.

From what I have heard and seen, many schools seem to be doing their utmost to comply with the regulations.
DIL is back at work, despite the fact that there are only 10 children back out of two year groups. Most other parents decided to continue keeping their children at home.
That means that teachers are having to teach those in school as well as arranging online learning for the others.

Great post Katek.
As someone who taught As an Assistant Principal, in several secondary schools, all with student numbers between 1000 and 1500, I can only applaud my current day colleagues.
The whole situation is ill thought out, by those who have no idea.

growstuff
I am not saying do as the French are doing. I was asked a question regarding ages and I would like to add I don't agree on the teaching methods, I just work here. That being said, the children are in 2 groups Monday/Tuesday, there is no school no Wednesdays for the last few years and the other group is present Thursday/Friday. What I don't agree is with the teachers being made to go back to school, some here are threatened with no new contracts next September. It is said children do not are not infectious. I am in a red/orange zone regarding convid and I have read today '143 new patients were hospitalized, 13 more than the day before'. It maybe to sell newspapers here, I don't know but I don't feel safe.

I retired a few years ago after 40 years teaching secondary. From 1986 onwards there has been nothing but change, some of which only lasted 2 years before the whole thing was changed again. I don't expect non-educators to understand how schools work; even though I've been going to the dentist for 65 years, I don't understand dentistry, how a practice functions or how it's funded. But apparently everyone understands schools.

Teachers don't work 9am until 3pm. Every lesson is prepared, resources organised (sometimes made) and subsequently marked and work often graded. That's about an hour's work for every hour taught. That's excluding the school's admin and recording system which can often be onerous. Teaching kids is physically exhausting. The idea of demanding that teachers (who are currently doing more than ever) should be teaching classes in the holidays or doubling up their timetable implies that normally they're not doing a lot. Sadly that just shows people's ignorance about education.

I'm ignorant about dentistry, I'm just grateful to my dentist that he knows his stuff, and I don't get tooth ache.

Maybe now is the time for schools to accept a few radical changes, if only for the short term. Schools need to be proactive in practical ways. Just as an example Heads could contact local marquee hire companies and ask them to erect tents on the football pitch. Then half the furniture could be moved in for the split classes. I know of a marquee company, which having no weddings or events, was only too pleased to do this immediately and thereby give their marquees an airing. Of course this wouldn't be possible in inner city schools, but what about apptoaching church halls, meeting halls etc. Being innovative is key, but teachers and Heads haven't really lived in the real world, going from school to college to school, so they will naturally be a bit resistant and reluctant.

Everyone is having to change they work Elliane I agree. The difficulties faced by schools is that no two are the same so it's difficult to have an overall solution.
Definitely a time for innovation and thinking outside the box.

So - it's ok for children to sit in a marquee but not spaced out wedding guests?

I've had a good idea.
Schools should re-open 24/7, children could come in on a rota system. They may have to walk there and back because public transport is not that frequent.
Teachers and TAs could live on site, as could administrative staff, dinner ladies etc as there won't be time to go home. They could catch a couple of hours nap in between shifts after doing marking and preparations.

Should I suggest it?

spaced out wedding guests
I re-read that and realised that is not quite what I meant.

As an ex Teacher I get so fed up of the idea that just because you've been to school you are how schools work > I do know , by keeping in touch ,that there have been so many changes that I couldn't go back and know what ~I was doing.
The idea that that teachers haven't lived in the real world is quite ridiculous. What about all the people who came into the profession, and profession it is, from business , what about the people who had another job while at university and so on? I'm afraid comments like that just show how little joe public really knows about the present day system .

Should read you know how schools work, sorry , but I am quite fed up , and didn't check .

Exactly sodapop, every school is different, every child is different, which is why a prescriptive one-size-fits-all education is flawed. Sadly no government in the world could ever achieve this. It would be nice, however, to see a bit of innovation on an individual school basis.

Can someone tell me what I missed 'not working in the real world', please?

I have family and friends working in all sorts of economic areas - have they been holding something back all these years?

OK let's replace the adjective real by business world. Educationalists haven't had the experience of having to prepare budgets, juggle school finances, work out building logistics etc. Neither should they be expected to. They are experts in their own field of educating.
In times of a crisis, however, a bit of innovation and flexibility is required by all. Physical space is the main issue in the current crisis and once that can be sorted out by the schools, I have every confidence teachers will adapt and get on with the job they are trained to do and are good at.

Unfortunately not everyone who is vulnerable can self isolate from schoolchildren. Both my daughter and son in law have long term health conditions which put them in the 'at risk' category. S-i-L is a stay at home dad anyway, and my daughter has been able to work at home since lockdown started (although her workplace could practice social distancing, she would have had a 1 hour commute each way by train to get there potentially exposing her to risk). Grandson is in his final year at primary school, and so in theory is one of the age groups who could go back in, but they dare not risk him going back and potentially carrying the infection back home. It seems to be well documented that individuals who catch this virus can be spreading it to others before they start to display symptoms, and may never develop symptoms themselves. Who is going to look after grandson if my DD and S-i-L become seriously ill? My DH has severe COPD so we are shielding, and his other grandma has severe health problems and has recently fallen and broken her arm, so all their usual back up childcare providers are off limits at the moment.

Of course educationalists prepare budgets, juggle finances and sort out building logistics- my ex headteacher OH did these things all the time- and guess what school is In the just as real as banking or running a shop

Schools are in the real world folks!

Perhaps some of you who are desperate for schools to open could volunteer to go in and deep clean the toilets throughout the day, most school toilets get progressively revolting through the day and get a cursory clean round from the underpaid cleaners in the evening.

Ellianne, vegansrock came in just as I was about to say, as she has, the headteachers do prepare budges, sort out building logistics, as well as a host of other things not directly related to teaching.
One of the most distressing things about this difficult period has been the increase in abuse directed at the teaching profession. That and the number of people who think because they and their children went to school at some point, that qualifies them as experts in how schools could safely and magically open to all children at this point in the pandemic.

I think it’s called the ability to think outside the box.
How can we do this? As opposed to We can’t do this.
I admire all the people I see on TV and irl who are working hard on how to make things happen and get their businesses etc back up and running.
Perhaps teachers don’t have the same degree of urgency or vested interest in the economy.
Just my view so before any haters jump on me - I’m not up for abuse or demands for evidence in triplicate.

Ellianne- who do you think does the budgets in schools if not the Leadership team who passes it onto the heads of dept (some heads of small depts are 24/25 and have been reaching a couple of years) in sec schools or year leaders in primary. Yes I've worked on building contracts and planned buildings (both new builds and extensions) and the time lines associated, liaised with contractors (and was complimented on my knowledge of the building regs pertaining to schools). Neither of my sisters is a teacher, and I don't think either of them have done any of the jobs you described.

I have GCs who can't return to school and by the time they do they will have been out of school for 6 months. GD aged 7 is getting no support from school and is thoroughly de motivated now, despite both parents trying to encourage whilst doing demanding jobs from home.

I have looked at the available evidence for risk of children spreading to each other, and to adults, and this appears, from available data, extremely unlikely, even if children have the virus but asymptomatic.

As schools have in fact been open throughout for children of key workers I wonder if schools have had any outbreaks? I really can't see the evidence for children having to distance from one another.

Children are the responsibility of their parents. Face up to it.
With modern technology, lessons on line which can be recorded and played over again, computers where you can find out almost anything, what is the problem in the short term? When my daughter was 12 years old she became very ill, very suddenly and after a stay in hospital she had to be at home for many month. When she went back to school she was actually ahead of most of her class in Latin and managed to hold her own in the other subjects This happened .because work was requested from school and provided by school.I helped her with her studying and we looked up whatever was unclear. She left school with excellent results and has been very successful in any job she has undertaken. Her own children 13 year old twins have been at home since the schools closed and will be at home until at least September. Apart from physically missing their friends, they do communicate by social media, they are doing their schoolwork every day and have some lessons by Zoom. They love having their mother at home. She has been furloughed, her husband is a keyworker but they have lovely family days when he has days off. Parents must just try a lot harder, no-one said it would be easy but it is achievable.

So while they are working with budgets that have for the last few years been severely cut leading to staff and equipment cuts and shortages, head teachers now have to find extra space, extra staff, extra cleaning, move furniture, organise rotas, arrange extra opening time, sort out small groups and work out a timetable always remembering that the children of key workers and vulnerable children must be in school all the time that some on-line work has to be available and that all the covid safety measures must be observed at all times. No wonder no one wants the job.
Schools have been juggling budgets and robbing Peter to pay Paul for years. Teachers have always worked long hours to keep up with the planning, assessment and marking, now they are expected to work miracles. Can I suggest that all those who think they know how this can be managed take themselves off to the nearest school and offer their services. At least they could clean the loos because I don't believe most of them could do much else. It needs real investment and I see no chance of that happening. Teachers will as usual struggle on doing their best with inadequate funding.