Vaccination misinformation

I agree with growstuff in that the lockdown was not enforced and strong enough. However the major problem with that is that unless every other country in the world did the same, the virus would simply have arrived again as soon as lockdown, in particular travel, was loosened. New Zealand was an example of that. To be honest I still think we are loosening lockdown too soon. People are being encouraged to go back to their offices when they can work safely from home, because coffee shops and sandwich bars are losing their usual trade. I’m afraid I think that is short sighted, because inevitably the R rate will rise, maybe not now, but in the Autumn. Families are allowed to gather indoors, two households at a time, but multiple people can gather in offices, all from different households. I’m worried about my son and daughter in law, who have worked perfectly safely and productively from home. And they don’t have the PPE that thank God, my daughter and her husband have access to now.
I’m hoping for a vaccine. I’m encouraged by the scientists I’ve seen interviewed on television and by the reports of teams of scientists all over the world working to this end. I fill in the Covid19 tracker app every day and I have been asked if I’m willing to possibly help in future trials of vaccines or medications. I have said I will.
I will continue to put my hope on a vaccine in the future.

I have a friend who lives in Sweden and she said that there has been advice and people have been trusted to follow it. Also stricter guidelines as well for the over 70's. And yes a lot have Summer houses out of the busy towns and many have spent the last few months there.

The Swedish experience is evaluated in the 11 July BBC ‘More or Less’ podcast. For example some bad results for the elderly, some good with no hotspots arising from keeping schools open...

(available online at BBC Sounds - apologies, I can’t see how to copy that link here).

The R rate in the UK overall is 0.9-1, which means that infection is not going away and in some areas is certainly rising. The next week or so will be critical. If it's not controlled, we could very well see exponential growth again.

It's going to be very difficult to take away people's "sweeties" amid the cries of "not fair".

I keep reading reports about capacity to vaccinate the whole population. I'm afraid it's hype. If you read beyond the headlines, these reports say that the capacity is there if a successful vaccine can be developed.

The big research labs have already teamed up with manufacturers such as AZ, so that they're ready to go - the problem is they're not ready. These announcements are being made for commercial reasons, to attract funding and raise share prices.

I was looking for a non-political, non-partisan report on the Swedish experiment. I realise that this is a bit out-of-date:

www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2376

It does, however, contradict some of the other claims which have been made.

I was given to understand that the R rate isn’t a very useful measure when the number of cases are comparatively low.

I hope for a vaccine but am not banking on one, due to the difficulties others have mentioned. I am hoping that as the professionals are learning all the time about this disease, they will find more treatments that mitigate the seriousness of it.

The R rate is just one measure to be sure, but the percentage of those infected is also creeping upwards in many areas.

It's always good to be hopeful, but personally I prefer to be cautious and responsible.

We all hope for a vaccine that would enable us to live our lives as we did pre-covid but if there is one it won't be available in the near future if at all. We can only hope for better treatments.

The virus will be around and the best that can be done is to contain it when cases appear to be high in certain areas. The last thing we want is for the whole country to be locked down again.
i

Do you feel that the government needs to be more honest about the possibility of a vaccine being discovered?
I feel so sorry for the people shielding who jump on every press release indicating it is only a matter of time before our scientists discover a vaccine, yet have no idea that after 50 years of research no vaccine has been created for any coronavirus, some much more deadly that the one that is causing the present pandemic?

Are you suggesting that because I have hope that I am incautious and irresponsible, Growstuff? . It is possible to be all of these things at the same time.

SueDonim

Are you suggesting that because I have hope that I am incautious and irresponsible, Growstuff? . It is possible to be all of these things at the same time.

No, but I'm realistic about a vaccine and I don't hold out any hope at all that will be one available in the near future. Hope doesn't really have much meaning.

Esspee

Do you feel that the government needs to be more honest about the possibility of a vaccine being discovered?
I feel so sorry for the people shielding who jump on every press release indicating it is only a matter of time before our scientists discover a vaccine, yet have no idea that after 50 years of research no vaccine has been created for any coronavirus, some much more deadly that the one that is causing the present pandemic?

Yes.

I’m not placing all of my eggs in the basket of a vaccine but scientific progress is being made on all sorts of fronts so who knows what the future holds?

In the meantime, I take the measures we are told to take, in order to keep me & mine safe.

Esspee

Do you feel that the government needs to be more honest about the possibility of a vaccine being discovered?
I feel so sorry for the people shielding who jump on every press release indicating it is only a matter of time before our scientists discover a vaccine, yet have no idea that after 50 years of research no vaccine has been created for any coronavirus, some much more deadly that the one that is causing the present pandemic?

Quite honestly I’m shocked that anyone expects a vaccine so quickly after still not having one for the common cold.

I’m shocked how many would take one tomorrow if produced!

I’m very pro vaccination, but these things take time and many trials!

I’m honestly shocked how few people seem to know this.

The Oxford vaccine is already undergoing initial testing. It is a new type, unlike (therefore incomparable with) most existing vaccinations - and if it's effective it will be available from early next year:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061288

Quite honestly I’m shocked that anyone expects a vaccine so quickly after still not having one for the common cold

Summerlove As I said upthread, the common cold is caused by several different types of virus and that’s why there isn’t a vaccine against it.
As for safety, why should a vaccine against COVID be any less safe than the flu vaccine that most of us have each year?
The flu vaccine is new & different every year because different strains of flu appear every year.
The trials aren’t just about safety, I think they’re mainly about efficacy.
I have put my name down - in the event of being invited to take part, I’m confident that there would be a full & proper consent process which would explain any anticipated dangers.
Having not been able to contribute so far to the efforts to control the pandemic, apart from strictly observing lockdown, I’d be glad to help a vaccination trial.

Just how soon and how effective a vaccine is going to be is very uncertain, we have seen how damaging to the economy a 3 month lock down has been. Whatever mistakes have been made is in the past, the government will not want to return to a full lockdown although local restrictions are likely.

It’s likely a second spike next winter will be allowed to run its course but restricted in its spread by mandatory PPE and social distancing.

We haven't even got over the first spike.

Given that there is unlikely to be a vaccine any time soon, the government needs a different strategy. It needs to be pro-active in preventing spread. If that means locking down early and hard where it's needed, that's what it should do.

In the long run, lock down is less damaging to the economy than doing nothing.

Hetty58

The Oxford vaccine is already undergoing initial testing. It is a new type, unlike (therefore incomparable with) most existing vaccinations - and if it's effective it will be available from early next year:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061288

The key word is if. The fact is that none of the scientists know that their vaccines will be effective.

Immunity to Covid-19 could be lost in months, UK study suggests.

Exclusive: King’s College London team found steep drops in patients’ antibody levels three months after infection.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

I saw that too growstuff but then again, the immunity could be jump started once the person comes into contact with the infection again. The truth is that we just don’t know. The scientists don’t know either but are working very hard on finding vaccines and treatments. I really want to be optimistic. I have suffered from depression previously and still take medication to ward it off. I found the weeks of complete lockdown difficult and depressing, even though I felt reassured by the lockdown. It was the absence of my real life that made me depressed. Mornings were difficult, which is common in depression. Since I’ve ventured out more, taking precautions wherever necessary, my mood has lifted. This is why I must try to be positive, and to see an end to all this somewhere in the future.

Also the acute worry I suffered about my daughter and her husband has lifted. The danger is always there, but there is sufficient PPE, their care homes are now Covid19 free, and the local Covid19 hub is closed.
However one son and daughter in law are now going back to work, so I’m a bit worried about that.

Last week, a study suggested that 30 per cent of Swedes have built up immunity to the virus. It would help explain why Covid-19 has been fizzling out in Sweden.

I wonder if encountering small amounts of the virus could help build up a tolerance.
So if we are using all the precautions, it could still be circulating but far fewer people would become very ill.

Even if that's right, tho, I guess older people and those with existing illnesses would still be very vulnerable.

A scientist from King's College was on Channel 4 News this evening talking about the possibility of a vaccine and also antibodies.

She said that the protection from antibodies varies depending upon how sick the individual has been. So, those who have been very sick will have longer lasting antibodies compared with those who were not very ill. She also warned about trying to get the illness in order to get the antibodies! (she said that with a smile, but was serious).

This virus seems to mutate more quickly than normal flu so it's possible that if/when there is a vaccine, the immunity will not last as long as that provided by the flu virus.

I am not expecting a vaccine for some time (if ever). However, there is no doubt that the treatment and care of those with the more virulent attack of it.

We seem to have forgotten that the reason for the original lockdown was far more to do with giving the hospitals and the (underfunded, and under-resourced) NHS a period to try to be able to cope with the large number of cases. To a large degree this was successful.

The downside of that lockdown will be felt probably for decades, in the downturn in the economy and the loss of tens of thousands of jobs and the mental health problems which result form this and and also from the lockdown itself.

I made the decision that whatever life I had left I intended to live it as fully as possible. Obviously, take some sensible precautions - but have continued with my weekly Sainsbury shop, gone out most days, never went OTT with washing down my shopping or stripping off all my clothes each time I returned home. Did and still do lots of hand washing.

I am very concerned about the number of people I see on sites such as GN who are now very scared to leave their homes. Agrophobia seems to be taking hold - they say that it takes all their courage to walk to the end of their road and cannot wait to rush back to the 'safety of indoors;. This is not just people who have been Shielded, but others older people. They rely on others working - for their food supplies, their utilities, everything. And, they live in fear about their own adult children who are at work. Not a good way to live at all.

Yes, I think cases will increase in winter, along with all the other normal winter illnesses and deaths which occur every year.

we are perhaps, fortunate that this particular virus, although it appears to be highly infectious is not very high on morbitity. Just think what would have happend if it had been Sars, etc.

Yes, we will learn to live with this as we also have learned to live with influenza, cancer, and strokes and heart attacks.