Exam results

PS. What do you mean by "top colleges"? Oxford, Cambridge and medical degrees still conduct interviews, but the vast majority don't. I suspect colleges, such as Imperial, UCL and the other Russell Group unis wouldn't take kindly to being referred to as anything but "top colleges".

Davidhs

If Williamson was really a fireplace salesman that explains a lot, salesman or saleswomen are full of bullsh—. Fast talking, insincere and slippery.

Exam grades are meant to reflect the pupils ability accurately if schools did assess 38% as A* they are plain dishonest, crooks.
When A* was introduced it was meant to split the large number of A grades awarded, grade inflation does not help pupils because colleges know it is being done. The top colleges have to have their own interviews and entrance tests to separate the stars from the average students.

Many colleges are all about bums on seats, poor quality courses, mediocre graduates, which is why over 40% of graduates are not doing graduate work.

Davidhs The teachers aren't "crooks". If a pupil is borderline between two grades, teachers will predict the higher grade. Every year (except this one of course), Chief Examiners double check certain borderline candidates. There is always a certain amount of subjectivity about marking most subjects at A level. If a candidate, for example, receives one mark away from an A, there's a chance that the paper will be looked at again, especially if the teacher assessment was an A. If the teacher assessment is a B, it's less likely that the candidate will be given the benefit of the doubt.

If a whole centre is way off the teacher assessment, there's a chance the papers will be remarked, in case there's a "rogue" examiner or a clerical error. If the centre has really overmarked on a massive scale, it will be ticked off by the exam board.

I suspect the overestimating isn't that much different from other years, but in previous years there was an exam to confirm the mark.

Some schools are notorious for overestimating A levels, which are often the same ones used for university offers. Of course, the pupil still has to achieve the exam grade, but at least he/she has an offer and might be motivated to achieve it. If the school is honest about predictions or even underestimates, the chances are that a pupil won't even receive an offer.

Daisymae

Now I understand the system a bit more, our family illustrates the inherent unfairness. 2 GC are awaiting results next week, both hard working and expecting good results, based on tests through out the years and mocks. Except the one at private school will have unmoderated results and the other will probably go down a grade or two under this system, purely based on the type of school they attend. This cannot be allowed to happen.

Daisymae That's not quite right. It's unlikely, even in a private school, that there are classes with fewer than five pupils for GCSE. I don't know how GCSE grades will be calculated, but I don't think it will be the same as A levels.

Ellianne

^He was a dim fireplace salesman before he went into politics.^
Hmmm, I'm not sure that was every kind comment vegansrock.
GW certainly needs to go. Perhaps he can be replaced by a bright, blazing person!

I think a dim fireplace sounds quite nice and restful.

To a large extent you are right Daisymae and it must be horrible for that to happen in your family. Life is never fair.
I know it won't ease the blow, and for the youngsters it isn't the point, but GCSE results are not quite as vital as A Levels so try not to over stress. They have probably already chosen their subjects, so hopefully schools will allow them to proceed without taking any notice of the grades this year. At least a large percentage of GCSE pupils will be continuing in their existing educational establishment where the teachers know their real worth. The delicate bit for you, however, is handling it in your immediate family.

Lucca
A Salesmans job is to “sell” the product, if they don’t do that they get sacked, it doesn’t matter if it’s a fireplace, a car or a political policy. They use a combination of half truths, optimism, sometimes lies, playing on the buyers prejudices, vulnerabilities . Buyers/voters are being manipulated all the way, led by the nose.

Now I understand the system a bit more, our family illustrates the inherent unfairness. 2 GC are awaiting results next week, both hard working and expecting good results, based on tests through out the years and mocks. Except the one at private school will have unmoderated results and the other will probably go down a grade or two under this system, purely based on the type of school they attend. This cannot be allowed to happen.

By the time all the appeals have been sorted, they may just as well have put back the exam dates by a couple of months and let the kids sit them. It may have meant using a lot more rooms so having more adjudicators but in the long run would have meant a lot less fuss.

No, david, say what you think !! All salesmen and women damned eh?

If Williamson was really a fireplace salesman that explains a lot, salesman or saleswomen are full of bullsh—. Fast talking, insincere and slippery.

Exam grades are meant to reflect the pupils ability accurately if schools did assess 38% as A* they are plain dishonest, crooks.
When A* was introduced it was meant to split the large number of A grades awarded, grade inflation does not help pupils because colleges know it is being done. The top colleges have to have their own interviews and entrance tests to separate the stars from the average students.

Many colleges are all about bums on seats, poor quality courses, mediocre graduates, which is why over 40% of graduates are not doing graduate work.

He was a dim fireplace salesman before he went into politics.
Hmmm, I'm not sure that was every kind comment vegansrock.
GW certainly needs to go. Perhaps he can be replaced by a bright, blazing person!

This...

Gavin Williamson is a good example of people being promoted beyond their intellectual capacities. He was a dim fireplace salesman before he went into politics,
He is just one of the cabinet nodding dogs who have been programmed to never apologise or admit to being wrong.

PS. I've just realised the above is a parody account, so it's not a direct quote from Williamson, but he and Johnson really have said more or less the same thing.

Gavin Williamson's response is outrageous!

Firstly, it's doubtful the government will create any meaningful jobs post-Covid.

Secondly, he's assuming that the pupils who were downgraded didn't deserve a university place. Presumably, he thinks they're only the plebs from FE colleges, so are only fit for low-skilled (mainly low paid jobs) anyway. What about the ones who've worked their socks off to achieve something with their lives?

Thirdly, he's misunderstood those who are affected, which includes pupils at grammar schools, academic sixth form colleges and the highest performing comprehensives, all of whom tend to have large entries per subject. Many of them have influential, pushy parents who aren't going to take this lying down.

Fourthly, another comment he made about wanting to avoid people being promoted beyond their competence is one of the most ironic things I've read, considering what an idiot he is. It also shows that he has no idea about any wider issues regarding the purpose of education. It's not just about jobs!

MayBee70

From what I’ve heard the larger the class size the more the downgrade. Does that sound correct? So private schools, with smaller classes haven’t been downgraded.

That's exactly what happened.

Schools with entries of less than five for a particular subject weren't changed.

For entries between 6 and 15, the teacher assessments were taken into account and adjusted.

If there were 16 or more entries, teacher assessments were ignored and an algorithm was used which used the school's prior attainment.

Nearly all schools overestimated some grades - there would have been 38% A*/As if teacher assessments had been used (previous high number was 27%) The schools with big entries were used to lower that number.

Crucially, small entries were protected and it tends to be private schools (other than the really famous academic ones) which have low numbers of entries per subject. That's why private schools have escaped downgrading relative to other types of school. The biggest losers have been sixth form and FE colleges. More deprived areas tend to have more FE colleges than small school sixth forms. However, it's also affected places like Cambridgeshire and Hampshire.

Even different subjects within the same establishment were treated differently.

There is evidence that the government was warned about all this weeks ago, when the algorithm was developed.

Hope all that makes sense!

Gavin Williamson doesn't appear to have the mental capacity to understand the real issues and Johnson just doesn't care!

From what I’ve heard the larger the class size the more the downgrade. Does that sound correct? So private schools, with smaller classes haven’t been downgraded.

The system has graded pupils depending on the number of entries the school had for each subject and the subjects they took.

It's just too simplistic to claim that schools rather than pupils have been graded.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-A-levels-teacher-grades-odds-stay?fbclid=IwAR2iGke2-DcYMMFEOn9Zg5zBmC_DJqkF7y2D_bsjfUX8HfR9BVGeBi5IrqY

Grammar schools and sixth form colleges have been affected more than comprehensives or private schools because they have larger entries, not because they are in a certain postcode.

Unfortunately, Johnson's response is, as ever, to shrug his shoulders. My guess is he doesn't understand statistics and couldn't care less anyway. Labour cares, but they're jumping on the wrong bandwagon. Unfortunately, the teaching unions knew how the algorithm would work and supported it, so are in no position to complain now.

The system grades the school and not the pupil www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/13/downgraded-a-level-students-urged-to-join-possible-legal-action
It just an outrage.

Franbern As your grandson is good at maths, hopefully you can explain how it was worked out and why he's been affected. It might make help him to feel a bit better and with a bit of luck, somebody might have another look at the algorithm.

Franbern

My g.son, attended a very large all-comers College. So, they have been hit very hard with their maths and science results

You're right.

Subjects with fewer than 5 entries were left unadjusted.
Subjects with 6 - 15 entries took teacher assessments into account, but were adjusted.
Subjects with 16 or more entries went into the national number crunching "machine" and were generally adjusted downwards.

That's why sixth form colleges, FE colleges, grammar schools and successful large comprehensives have been affected more than private schools, which generally have much smaller A level classes.

Pupils at sixth form and FE colleges have a lower average socio-economic status than private schools.

Subjects such as languages and music in most schools have quite low numbers and have generally been left unadjusted, apart from in grammar schools and sixth form colleges.

Ellianne

Well that's a first that Modern Languages will stand out in a positive way growstuff, for the wrong reasons though.

Yes, I agree the cohort in settings like the independent sector will be less affected due to the number of candidates. Not fair at all.

Yes, I know. Some language teachers were discussing it a couple of days ago after the information had been leaked. Language A levels were going to be marked slightly more generously this year anyway, after a review finally accepted that language A levels are harshly graded.

Well that's a first that Modern Languages will stand out in a positive way growstuff, for the wrong reasons though.

Yes, I agree the cohort in settings like the independent sector will be less affected due to the number of candidates. Not fair at all.

My g.son, attended a very large all-comers College. So, they have been hit very hard with their maths and science results

Ellianne

tes

Thanks. It confirms what I've just said about large centres. I hadn't read it before I wrote my last post.

www.tes.com/news/level-results-colleges-call-technical-review

There needs to be a technical review of the algorithm. I just hope Gavin Williamson has the intelligence and cares enough to understand the issue.