Facing a new lockdown, extend the bubble to two adult families?

If anybody's interested in reading the government's weekly "Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) surveillance report", it's here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/919092/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_38_FINAL.pdf

Both DD and SIL are key workers, police officers; if I don’t break bubble rules they can’t work the shifts they are required to .

And if you do break bubble rules, they'll be committing a crime and could end up losing their jobs and you could all end being infected. A conundrum indeed!

trisher

I'm in the NE and in lockdown again. I know that there have to be rules but it really is extraordinary that I could go to the pub with group of friends (but will be thrown out at 10) but can't see my family in my house, even though they are all still working from home, so fairly isolated themselves, and the biggest risk are my DGCs who are in school.
Minimoon I would imagine that if it was said to be an educational meet-up there could be little objection and certainly no real legal basis for one. After all children in schools are in bubbles of 100+ so a bubble of home educators should be acceptable.

Trisher, I understand your confusion, but this is taken from my friend's Facebook page. I have no idea who "the publican" is, but the words are good, I think
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

FROM A PUBLICAN
================
Please tell me more about the hand sanitising stations, plastic screens, one way system and 2 meter spacing you have in your home. Tell me how you are enforcing face coverings in your living room or when you’re preparing food? Can you produce your cleaning records showing the frequency and type of cleaning for each area of your home? How often do you clean you light switches? Your toilet flush? Your door handles? Do you have training records confirming each of your family understand the difference between cleaning, sanitising and disinfecting? What steps are you taking you avoid cross contamination? Show me please an invoice detailing the specs of your cleaning products. Give me the dates Environmental Health checked your home to ensure you’ve met all standards and confirmed you are safe please.

You can’t? Because my work can and that is why we’re allowed to host 20 people and you’re not.

I’m sorry you can’t visit your mum just now. I hate it too. We’re not in the situation we’re in because you went for a cup of tea, and that’s why exceptions for childcare and work can be made. We’re here because people are having full on parties in small homes in the middle of a pandemic, to try and AVOID the restrictions keeping them safe in pubs and gyms.

This situation is HARD but maybe accept that if we’re not willing to be responsible for a little longer it’s not going away. And don’t give me it about the pubs and schools being open because if they shut them again you’ll quickly remember how you hated that so much more.

If you miss your mum, bring her here. I promise I’ll keep her safe.

the explanation by Publican is right and was explained exactly as that by the government when these new rules were bought in! I don't understand why people don't 'get' it!

I just dont get it, I was ok at the start of all this but now i am just totally confused about everything.

Growbag - I'm not being coy, just very conscious that there are somethings we are not encouraged to discuss!

Here in the north east. My granddaughters school has forbidden grandparents to pick up or take children to school. Many parents will be having problems with child care .they need to extend the furlough like Germany

Emelle - we are definitely on the same page ??

Growbag. I will endeavour to give you an example. We have a local community centre which is supervised by our close neighbour. He told us today that there was a large gathering of worshippers due today. They were to have a service and then a buffet. They would all be close together and singing loudly and then all socialising together. They were advised that they shouldn’t do this but declined to take the advice. There are many groups similar around the country. This is just one example. I hope this helps.

Aha! So it's gatherings of worshippers, is it? Makes a change from ravers.

Actually, if you look at the official government statistics, it's people in the same household, followed by visitors to your own home or from visiting other people's homes.

Emelle I didn't know that GN discouraged talk of worshippers.

PS. I do grow stuff in my garden, but don't use grow bags.

HurdyGurdy I will send that to everyone I know who keeps moaning about pubs being open, yet they can't have family/friend gatherings in their home! Thank you!

Exactly Growstuff, and if you were assaulted or burgled and three were no officers???? A conundrum indeed

Lord alone knows how we cope with all the many, many ramifications

HurdyGurdy excellent post, thank you.

trisher I think a group of home educators would have to be registered as a school. Legally, it's a grey area. It's possible that some home educating groups are operating illegally and don't have a requirement for a DBS, Health and Safety certificates, public liability insurance, etc. There have been mumblings for many years to register all private tutors and home educating groups, but nothing has ever been done. I think if anybody made a fuss, the group would count as a social group and, therefore, no more than six would be allowed.

Nanna58

Exactly Growstuff, and if you were assaulted or burgled and three were no officers???? A conundrum indeed

I was assaulted a few years ago and the police didn't ever turn up, so it wouldn't make much difference.

I was just pointing out that your DD and SIL would be breaking the law. Maybe the police force needs to be more flexible with shifts. The virus doesn't know that you're all more important than other people.

In my view it's a complete nonsense to say people shouldn't meet in their homes or gardens and yet pubs remain open and the pub gardens are full. The pub mentioned may be especially conscientious but it would be very difficult to regulate the behaviour of every customer, for instance, when using toilets.

Also, people are being told to go to work which means they will be within a confined workspace with other people for several hours a day - and they will be using public transport. I understand why this is felt necessary - to stop the economy completely collapsing but I would imagine that is a far greater risk than people meeting up outside.

Surely it isn't sustainable to keep having these mini lockdowns, let alone going back to the full lockdown? The virus is held up for a while but presumably it will just come back when restrictions are relaxed? I suppose the reasoning is that if lots of people become ill enough to have to be admitted to hospital, there may not be the beds or the staff to treat them all.

My own feeling is that the handling of this crisis has been inept and chaotic. If people with the virus are not being identified through testing, tracking and tracing, there is really no effective way of slowing down its progress, unless draconian measures are brought in. This may well destroy the the economic and social structure of this country.

Today in the NE we are in regional lockdown with the aforementioned “bubbles “ supposed to be in place . Very stressful on those keeping to the rules .... now today, in our local parks of which there are many as we live near the coast, had upwards of 35 children and many many adults. Those children were interacting and ALL using the same equipment to play on over and over again all day long I’m guessing hundreds of children from all over the NE in the course of ONE day. Why have bubbles at all in schools, homes etc if this is any indicator of what people feel entitled to do in the middle of such a crisis as a regional lockdown. The teens are being blamed by many but it’s up to everyone to do their bit. We’ve missed out on so much already and made many sacrifices and to see this at the park today made me so worried.

HurdyGurdy that doesn't sound like any pub I've heard of. One pub near me was closed down for 3 days shortly after it reopened because a member of staff tested positive. Reopened after a deep clean. Family coming into my house wash or sanitise their hands as they enter, so do I. The only other things coming into my house are groceries and the post.
grow stuff education is specifically mentioned in the exceptions to the ban on meetig up, it doesn't say schools.

I find it a bit odd - we can only meet up to six inside or outside within 2 households not including children but can meet in a pub not that we go to pubs etc. We have a bubble with DD2 who is single parent so she can go to work as a nurse but currently childcare for DD1 also. If we didn't either her (teacher) or DSil (police) would have to stay off work to look after children so hope changes to this don't happen. Don't see why they can't close pubs, nightclubs etc again so children don't suffer again.

trisher

HurdyGurdy that doesn't sound like any pub I've heard of. One pub near me was closed down for 3 days shortly after it reopened because a member of staff tested positive. Reopened after a deep clean. Family coming into my house wash or sanitise their hands as they enter, so do I. The only other things coming into my house are groceries and the post.
grow stuff education is specifically mentioned in the exceptions to the ban on meetig up, it doesn't say schools.

I don't know whether this kind of group would count as education. I guess it depends on the wording and would probably need a legal case to sort out, which I doubt would happen.

I do know that any group offering full-time education to five or more pupils at a time must register as a school. This group wouldn't have to do that, so possibly doesn't count as an "education setting". So what is it?

When Michael Wilshaw was Head of Ofsted, he wanted all tuition groups to be registered, but that was all abandoned when he retired.

Adult reading groups and some U3A classes have been told they can't operate, but I don't know who made that decision.

It was a group of home educators who objected to being registered a few years ago , which led to attempts to register all children not in school being dropped. So I guess they’ve only themselves to blame. They don’t want the restrictions of being in school, so can’t gather together in their own unregulated groups. If there’s a whole group of home schooled children then they’re not all at home are they? It’s sort of like a school. ..

Aepgirl

Why do people always want to change the ‘rules’ to suit themselves? The rule of 6 is to protect us all, not to cause inconvenience.

BUT......the government spokesman in the House of Lords admitted three times in a debate that the RULE OF SIX was NOT based on any sort of scientific information, was just an easy number for people to be told and remember.
Seems a strange way of making restrictions for an illness which is nasty, but nowhere near as life threatening as the many illnesses which are now no longer being treated in our current surreal corona world.