Should we ask over 60s to stay in?

Last line should have read, and possibly suffer mentally by lack of social interaction?

Definitely not. Over 60 is far too young. You cannot retire on a pension until you are 66 so why would they consider staying home and possibly mentally by the lack of social interaction?

If you ignore everything the politicians say (after all, you might as well) and pay real attention to what they actually do, neglect to do - and allow to happen - then you get a clear picture of their values, priorities and agenda.

Franbern

Bluecat

polnan If every pensioner was dead, the government wouldn't allocate the money saved on state pensions to feed needy children or house the homeless. They wouldn't do it because they don't have the ideological motivation to do it.

More money is lost through tax evasion than benefit fraud, but we hear a lot about the latter whereas no effort goes into closing tax loopholes. The government says that it "can't write a big cheque" for free school dinners in the holidays and yet it writes massive cheques for billions of pounds worth of contracts never even put to tender. Contracts that were, in many cases, never fulfilled - including PPE that didn't meet specifications and the useless attempts at Test and Trace, such as the £18 billion which Serco has pocketed for the current shambles. Money down the drain, that could actually have helped people.

No doubt Boris would be glad if I hurried up and died, so that I didn't draw my state pension. Therefore I am going to live to be 100 ,just to spite him.

Bluecat, excellent post and observations. Thought it deserved being repeated and hope people read it and learn. The most surreal part of this year to me, has been the way that the government has got away with rewarding their mates, relatives and friends with totally useless million pound contracts which have been totally a waste.

Both good posts. I have a feeling that many “thinking” Tories are beginning to feel uncomfortable with the way things are going.
Certainly some tory MPs are. I wonder where they will draw the line and say enough?

Bluecat

polnan If every pensioner was dead, the government wouldn't allocate the money saved on state pensions to feed needy children or house the homeless. They wouldn't do it because they don't have the ideological motivation to do it.

More money is lost through tax evasion than benefit fraud, but we hear a lot about the latter whereas no effort goes into closing tax loopholes. The government says that it "can't write a big cheque" for free school dinners in the holidays and yet it writes massive cheques for billions of pounds worth of contracts never even put to tender. Contracts that were, in many cases, never fulfilled - including PPE that didn't meet specifications and the useless attempts at Test and Trace, such as the £18 billion which Serco has pocketed for the current shambles. Money down the drain, that could actually have helped people.

No doubt Boris would be glad if I hurried up and died, so that I didn't draw my state pension. Therefore I am going to live to be 100 ,just to spite him.

Bluecat, excellent post and observations. Thought it deserved being repeated and hope people read it and learn. The most surreal part of this year to me, has been the way that the government has got away with rewarding their mates, relatives and friends with totally useless million pound contracts which have been totally a waste.

WW2, even I (the eternal optimist) while I suspect the scientists are quite right, cannot live believing that we're all doomed anyway.

I need to have hope, so I do the very best I can as an individual. I put faith In every little precaution making a big difference in the long run.

I recognise and accept the risks and never underestimate (or ignore) them, just to suit my preferences. I see quite enough of that way of thinking on here.

JenniferEccles

My view is that the over 60s in poor health should think carefully about how much risk they are prepared to take.

Some very elderly people with serious health problems would decide to stay shielding at home, whereas others would be so miserable being shut off from family that, within reason, they would take a calculated risk.

My strongest feeling is that the rest of the country, in other words the vast majority, must get back to work.

I am not convinced these stop/start lockdowns are the way to go as they will just prolong the virus.

It isn’t a question of prolonging the virus because it is endemic.

It is all about managing the level of people with it at any one time.

Locking down serves as giving the NHS a breathing space.

Wow kittylester, you got it in the neck from some posters.

We are learning as we go. I was in the shielding category during that first phase but, I continued to leave the house twice a day to walk my dogs. I kept a distance from people and have continued to do so. The risks to those of us in the initial shielding category are no less, we're now to be 'very careful' because many of so their parents can work.

We need to support the economy and people's mental health alongside doing all we can to minimise the risk of spreading this virus. I agree with those who say its here to stay. Its either slightly less of a killer, or the NHS has learned more effective ways of managing it. Probably a combination.

My view is that the over 60s in poor health should think carefully about how much risk they are prepared to take.

Some very elderly people with serious health problems would decide to stay shielding at home, whereas others would be so miserable being shut off from family that, within reason, they would take a calculated risk.

My strongest feeling is that the rest of the country, in other words the vast majority, must get back to work.

I am not convinced these stop/start lockdowns are the way to go as they will just prolong the virus.

Hetty58

Whitewavemark2, my retired science professor friend says we are all living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. His views are depressing.

He thinks we really should give up on any expectation of back to normal/near normal/new normal.

We've created the perfect conditions for world pandemics and this is just the beginning. Society will be unable to adapt quickly enough to prevent them. Instead, it will break down.

We passed the point of no return with climate change back in the 1970s. We stuck our heads in the sand. Now, we can slow things down - but we live on a dying planet.

'What exactly do we do then?' I asked.

'Apologise to your children and grandchildren' he said!

Yes I am aware of that as I have a scientist daughter working on one of the vaccines.

But at the moment I prefer to be a Pollyanna and try to convince myself that everything will be ok ( I can’t possibly think where I have learned that lesson?)

Daughter thinks the most worrying thing is anti-biotic superbug. That could take us back to before their invention. Even giving birth could become perilous. She usually works on anti-biopics.

But let’s not think of that. There is enough to worry about.

Hetty58
Your professor friend isn't the only one thinking this. There was a piece on Radio 4 some months back detailing this subject. It's very very serious.
The way the whole world is farming and distributing food is creating the perfect storm for pandemics.

Nooooo!!!
What would be the point in that? You cannot generalise that all over 60's are ga-ga and using walking frames so should be kept indoors and out of the way. If someone over 60 has severe health issues then that's different but you can't impose such a blanket response to all over 60's.

From Sir Patrick Valance talking in front of the House of Lords committee.
I think it's unlikely that we will end up with a truly sterellising vaccine. I.e. Something that truly stops the infection- and it's likely that the disease will circulate and become endemic. That's my best assessment and I think that's the view of many people on SAGE that that's a likely outcome

Whitewavemark2, my retired science professor friend says we are all living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. His views are depressing.

He thinks we really should give up on any expectation of back to normal/near normal/new normal.

We've created the perfect conditions for world pandemics and this is just the beginning. Society will be unable to adapt quickly enough to prevent them. Instead, it will break down.

We passed the point of no return with climate change back in the 1970s. We stuck our heads in the sand. Now, we can slow things down - but we live on a dying planet.

'What exactly do we do then?' I asked.

'Apologise to your children and grandchildren' he said!

Getting it in the neck kitty????

My opinion, just to add to the huffery puffery is carry on as normal.

My normal is lots of fresh air and walking. Tiny bit of shopping, with 95% done on line. Go to hairdressers and podiatrist as well as hygienist, dentist etc. Avoid crowded spaces. Avoid the grandsons at the risk taking age☹️☹️, see the offspring who are working at home and low risk. Chat to neighbours at a socially distanced level.

You have to live as relatively normal life as you can within parameters you set for yourself.

There are lots I am not doing but I have my eyes set firmly on the horizon when all will be back to relative normal. With luck??

Many over-60s did continue with self lockdown over the summer.
And now there are increasing numbers of under-60s being diagnosed with Covid as they obviously passed it around each other.

Excellent post M0nica.

I wouldn't mind but I can't see my employers agreeing to all the over-60s staff staying home simply because of their age - and I work in a supermarket with a constant stream of strangers. I don't socialise at all, and live alone, so apart from seeing my daughter briefly when I look after DGS, work is the only place I am in contact with other people. I'd happily not have contact with anyone except my dog!

In my experience over 60s are out and about with caution. Many of us have responsibilities, like my 60 something neighbour who has taken over her mother’s care from peripatetic carers.

Millie22

Err no
7 pages about something that won't happen.

Exactly - just deliberate winding up and upsetting of people - it’s pathetic

Ditto MissA

Err no
7 pages about something that won't happen.

Well, the other side of the coin is that I'd welcome the chance to stay in.
Working isn't doing much for my mental or physical health these days.
If I was paid, I would be at home.

No! An age cut off is just too blunt an instrument! There are just too many variables of circumstances, responsibilities and health!

And the negative impact on mental health is rising massively already and it will get even worse. That has to be taken into account too.

If we all cocked our toes up, the country would be in deep trouble. With the population down by 20%, many people who work in the care industry, farmers, shops, clothes and all sorts of other industries would see demand for their products plummet. The housing market would be in chaos, with all those house coming on the market prices would fall - fine for those who want to buy houses but those owning houses with mortgages would almost all fall into negative equity. No new house building would be needed so lots of builders would be out of business.

All that money paid in pensions would be eaten up in supporting those out of work, those industries in collapse and, as over 60 or not many of us pay income tax, VAT, fuel tax and a lot of other taxes, tax revenue would fall as well.