Second wave sweeping Europe?

petra

Why was there an increase of 67 % in traffic outside Wuhan hospitals in October 2019 from the exact time period the year before. And a massive surge in internet searches ( in china) looking at covid symptoms?
The traffic info is from satellite images. The internet data was gathered by Harvard university.

Exactly!! The Chinese are not famous for their honesty and transparency and the WHO will only be told what the Chinese Government want them to know. BBC showed a clip a few months ago of their reporter and camera team in Wuhan, speaking to local people. One lady, a nurse, was giving them an interview when she was hurried away by officials. The BBC team had their car surrounded by Police and Government staff and could not continue their report. Why the secrecy? China has no right to try to conceal the origins of this virus and how it has been allowed to cause so many deaths and so much destruction in our world.

Even NZ has a little surge of 40 Russian boat workers who all tested positive and a dock worker who went aboard then off to the pub now all quarantined in a special hotel but whose to know if anyone was infected in the pub
I m afraid all the lockdowns are not going to work as once we put our heads above the parapet it ll catch up with us again until it mutates wears itself out or we get a vaccine ( which I don’t think will be any time soon)

I tend to agree fennel and some countries will never report the true figures

Namsnanny, it appears that nicotine attaches itself to cells which the virus aims for and blocks the virus from attaching, or some such thing.
A high percentage of doctors in China smoke, the highest in the world.

Ironically, BAT ( British American Tobacco ) stated that in April this year they can produce a vaccine based on a coronavirus antigen growing vaccine in tobacco plants. They also stated that they could manufacture up to 3 million vaccines a month----if it gets support from the Government.
This was updated in July of this year.

Most medications etc are plant based.

China does not have huge protest rallies with tens of thousands of people attending, shouting about anti-vax and 5G, or Extinction Rebellion rallies, or raves ..... at least I assume not. Perhaps GagaJo can confirm.

All these large groups of people mingling in the free world have obviously not helped.

kircubbin2000

Is China telling the truth?

He isn't Chinese. He's a Northumbrian British bloke from my old UK school.

But sure. Conspiracy theory. They've even paid foreigners to lie for them.

The latest evidence suggests that smoking increases the risk of death in hospitalised Covid- 19 patients:

"Conclusions
At the time of this review, the available evidence suggests that smoking is associated with increased severity of disease and death in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. Although likely related to severity, there is no evidence to quantify the risk to smokers of hospitalization with COVID-19 or of infection by SARS-CoV-2 was found in the peer-reviewed literature. Population-based studies are needed to address these questions.

Related WHO Recommendations
Given the well-established harms associated with tobacco use and second-hand smoke exposure;2 WHO recommends that tobacco users stop using tobacco. Proven interventions to help users quit include toll-free quit lines, mobile text-messaging cessation programmes, nicotine replacement therapies and other approved medications.

30 June 2020"

www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/smoking-and-covid-19

Many will have died from other illnesses/ailments as happens daily around the world but we never hear of. The figures are still sketchy.

ALL of my Brit (and American) friends in China are living normal lives now. Dinners out. Socialising. Out to bars at night. Shopping.

Lock down HARD. Trace all contacts of anyone who tests positive. It works.

A friend went on holiday in another city in China for 2 weeks just after the pandemic had eased. When she returned, mandatory Covid test. 2 weeks quarantine in her home (the police checked she was there a couple of times). 2nd mandatory Covid test at the end of the 2 weeks quarantine.

I wish people would stop looking at conspiracy theories and look at evidence and - yes- use their common sense.

I don't think looking at China serves much purpose. The country has a very different demographic profile and population density. Crucially, the state has a different role and people have to do as they're told.

The country most similar to the UK is Germany in many ways. Germany managed to keep cases and deaths lower than the UK. Even now, the huge increase in Germany hasn't reached the numbers of the UK and I think our government should be asking itself why and what we can learn.

Test and trace can't work unless it's efficient (which it isn't in the UK) and numbers are still controllable (which in many areas of the UK they're not). Low numbers in some areas could still be controlled.

The only alternative is to stop transmission by safe distancing and mask wearing, but too many people haven't been following the rules, which is why areas are experiencing lockdowns, which need to be enforced.

Unless somebody can come up with something different ...

GagaJo

ALL of my Brit (and American) friends in China are living normal lives now. Dinners out. Socialising. Out to bars at night. Shopping.

Lock down HARD. Trace all contacts of anyone who tests positive. It works.

A friend went on holiday in another city in China for 2 weeks just after the pandemic had eased. When she returned, mandatory Covid test. 2 weeks quarantine in her home (the police checked she was there a couple of times). 2nd mandatory Covid test at the end of the 2 weeks quarantine.

Too many people in the UK whinge about hard lockdowns Gagajo and do their own thing.

Good post MawB2

My brother- in-law used to work in China.
He said the people of China do as they're told and wouldn't dare do any other.
There have been whistle blowers who have been found shot or mysteriously disappeared.
I believe there has been a cover up.

I read today that there has been a large anti-lockdown demonstration in London, police hurt and arrests been made. While this keeps happening and people flouting the rules, we have no chance of beating this virus at all.
Boris can't be blamed for ignorant people.

EllanVannin

Many will have died from other illnesses/ailments as happens daily around the world but we never hear of. The figures are still sketchy.

The leading causes of death in the UK are dementia, heart disease, strokes and cancer. Deaths from infectious diseases are rare. It's different in third world countries, which is why they face different challenges.

However, in the UK, being in contact with an infected person won't make you more liable to death from one of the leading forms of death. The causes of those may be preventable, but involve more long-term lifestyle changes, which are a whole different issue.

sharon103

Good post MawB2

My brother- in-law used to work in China.
He said the people of China do as they're told and wouldn't dare do any other.
There have been whistle blowers who have been found shot or mysteriously disappeared.
I believe there has been a cover up.

I read today that there has been a large anti-lockdown demonstration in London, police hurt and arrests been made. While this keeps happening and people flouting the rules, we have no chance of beating this virus at all.
Boris can't be blamed for ignorant people.

Maybe some of them should be forced to attend a super spreader event. Can you imagine the outcry?

I've spent some time in China and its not just the authoritarian Government that ensures compliance, its a completely different mindset.

You only have to read posts on Gransnet to see that most people value individual needs and rights over those of society as a whole. Posters are usually advised to put themselves and family first and to do what is right for them.

In China most people value the community, if not the state, above all and would place the individual need below that of the wider community.

We enjoy our freedoms and we emphasise the individual, encouraging our children to feel special.

Our limited control in situations like this is the price we pay.

growstuff ... what do you think of *Ashcombes graph?

Namsnanny

growstuff ... what do you think of *Ashcombes graph?

It doesn't have a key, so I'm not sure what it's showing.

growstuff

Namsnanny

growstuff ... what do you think of *Ashcombes graph?

It doesn't have a key, so I'm not sure what it's showing.

The key runs along the bottom of the graph. The lines are in different colours for each year. The 2020 statistics are in red.

Ah! I see it's all ages. It shows that there was a huge peak, which I expect were Covid deaths, and that deaths are beginning to rise above yearly averages again. That's what I would expect from all the figures.

We know that up to now the second wave is affecting mainly 10-24 year olds, so I would expect the mortality rate to be lower than it was in the spring/late summer, so trying to prevent it spreading to more vulnerable people is crucial.

I don't really get why you think it's interesting. It's what I would expect. Am I missing something?

Just to add to what growstuff said, and maybe add a bit more detail:

Obviously it shows the peak in excess deaths in the spring of this year. It also shows that from week 37 to week 40, we were running at the high end of the average of the last five years.

Unfortunately it stops at week 40 and we are in week 43 now, so it doesn't show any of the recent increases in deaths, for the last 3 weeks. Obviously that also means that the impact of the latest rise in cases isn't being shown yet.

What do you think it shows Namsnanny and Ashcombe?

Do we know the real figure of those who actually died from the virus, Growstuff ? Perhaps you can tell us.

EllanVannin

Do we know the real figure of those who actually died from the virus, Growstuff ? Perhaps you can tell us.

No, I can't.

Alegrias2

Just to add to what growstuff said, and maybe add a bit more detail:

Obviously it shows the peak in excess deaths in the spring of this year. It also shows that from week 37 to week 40, we were running at the high end of the average of the last five years.

Unfortunately it stops at week 40 and we are in week 43 now, so it doesn't show any of the recent increases in deaths, for the last 3 weeks. Obviously that also means that the impact of the latest rise in cases isn't being shown yet.

What do you think it shows *Namsnanny and Ashcombe?*

I wondered that too, but was too lazy to work out which week we're actually in now.

Deaths were increasing exponentially for a couple of weeks. I think the rise has levelled slightly, but we're still seeing exponential growth. There's not a lot that can be done about the people who are already infected, including those currently hospitalised, so that curve might start rising steeply again. In fact, I think it will, but I'm a bit busy and don't have the time to look back on historical ONS stats.

There's plenty could be done NOW to stop more people being infected and reaching the dizzy heights of spring/early summer.

According to my diary, week 44 starts tomorrow. I shared the graph for information. Perhaps the ONS will update their information soon. It was posted on Twitter originally.

The ONS data was updated on Thursday I think.