End of the lockdown.

To anyone who doubted my previous response, and to clarify; yes, influenza mutates, usually only slightly annually.

Covid 19 is on it’s 4th mutation in under a year that we know of. See attached.

In Scotland, we have been told that hospitals in the worst affected areas are already under pressure
FarNorth For information, I've just posted on the Good Evening Wednesday thread that South Australia has just been placed under 6 days lockdown (sounds very much like our recent Melb curfew!)
Their Chief M.O. said it was an urgent decision because a new outbreak of Covid in Adelaide is far more virulent and must be contained urgently.
Don't drop your guard!
OoRoo

In Scotland, we have been told that hospitals in the worst affected areas are already under pressure.
People may not all be dying but are certainly suffering.
How much more suffering would there be if we did not have restrictions.

Bazza I watched the programme about the 18/19 Spanish Flu. There was no lockdown as such although, people were seen to wear masks.
The reason it finished was that, it either killed those who caught it or, they became immune. There was nowhere left for the virus to go. It did not seem to leave the long-term effects on those who recovered from it either. We could ignore it and it would go away eventually or become a lesser illness but, what lives would need to be sacrificed!

I agree, it's a pity it isn't a legal requirement (but not sure how it could be enforced). On a bus journey yesterday there was a constant reminder over the speaker that wearing a face mask on public transport is a legal requirement, not optional.

I know I’ve said this before, but IMO we’re far too lax about mask-wearing. Hardly anyone ever wears one in my local small shop - that is except me and the bloke behind the till. I refuse to believe that everyone else I see without one is exempt.

I see people in supermarkets wearing them below their nose, or even on their chin. Reminds me of an old lady I used to take to hospital appts - when I tried to fasten her seat belt she said, ‘It’s all right dear, I’ll just hold it.’ ?

In other countries they have signs saying masks are mandatory in shops.
Here it’s usually an oh so polite, ‘Please wear a face covering.’

And still the schools and colleges stay fully open all the time. My DD has now tested positive but says that as a teacher of 7-8 year-olds she has no option but to help with their coats and shoelaces and so on, so social distancing in the classroom is a joke. Masks are some help, but not enough. I suppose that when enough teachers have had to go off work they will have to shut schools anyway.

let's face it our 'lockdowns' aren't really lockdowns, our 'quarantines' not real either.

I don't like the dog comparison. It's not exactly the same level of threat when we open the door, is it?.

After all, the virus is dependent, can only survive (for long) in humans, can only spread by transmission. If we reduce the transmission rate, we change the threat level.

When we open the door, it's a little terrier there!

alltheglitterglue
I said I knew that CV19 was not flu
Death rate from Covid is 0.1% . Higher for people in older age groups, but is not the 'We're all going to die' killer disease that so many people think it is.
'Flu virus mutates all the time, which is why a vaccine is required annually.

Do think there is still panic about Covid - it is a horrible virus, and does cause death particularly amongst the old. Although even there the figures show that the average age of death from Covid is over 83 yrs, whereas average age of death in this country normally is just over 82 yrs

Not downplaying what a nasty virus this is, I am far more concerned at the complete destruction of so many people's lives through lost jobs, unemployment, severe mental health problems, loss of their housing, break-up of relationships, increase in abuse etc. etc.

What is the matter with me? Honestly I am losing it!
The figures I quoted should have said between sixty and eighty thousand not million!

Franbern the differences are these:

• Coronaviruses are not flu viruses, they are cold viruses.
• This winter we will all be at risk of seasonal flu and Covid.
• The Covid infection rate is much higher than normal seasonal flu.
• Covid deaths per person infected are much higher than seasonal flu.
• One of the reasons that Covid 19 is so dangerous is that it mutates and quickly.

Horrible as they are, lockdowns do work if they are observed. Unfortunately, it seems that people aren’t observing this one.

I tend to agree Franbern
I have read varying figures about the death toll in this country from the 1968 Hong Kong flu epidemic, ranging from sixty to eighty million people yet life carried on as normal.

Thinking of those who still have symptoms months after covid reminds me of chronic fatigue syndrome which has been around for many years and can occur after viral infections.
Could long covid could be a form of that ?

I’m sure it would help if each and every single one of us tried our best to do the right thing. What is so hard about wearing a mask and washing our hands and social distancing?

Just an idle thought.......
If, in 'normal' years, there was some sort of test to see if a person had influenza, and if they did, then all their contacts had to self-isolate for a fortnight, just wondering how many thousands, each week would test positive.......and how many more thousands would have to self-isolate.
We know that 'flu is highly infectious, and the vaccine has only extremely limited efficacy each year. Yes, this illness does kill a lot of people every year, and many also have after effects for weeks, months afterwards.
I am not saying that CV19 is just another flu - but just thinking that even in those very bad 'flu years, we did not shut things down, and prevent people going to work.

After lockdown I will just carry on doing the same I am afraid. Not going anywhere unless I have to and staying away from everyone, my DH is extremely vulnerable so staying home alone as much as possible. I do hope to be able to visit my Mom in her care home before Christmas.

Thank you , Sandelf , for the interactive map. I've been looking for that on the system for ages and thought that they had stopped doing it.
I feel that we had a countrywide lockdown to stop the spread of covid and protect the less affected areas from the spread.
Lockdown never really had a chance with so many idiots about.

Like many on Gransnet, I've been isolating since February. It seems logical to me that if I don't meet anyone, I don't put myself in danger of infection. I realise that everyone isn't able to completely isolate, but they who can't can limit contact and take precautions. Rallies, raves and demonstrations are just irresponsible and participants should be dealt with severely, as should family and friends gatherings. For every expert who gives an opinion, there is another, just as highly qualified, who gives the opposite opinion, so who do we listen to? As seen on Gransnet there are so many who try and justify "tweaking" the guidance to suit their own preferences. From Rufus2's post, we need to adopt the same principles as Melbourne, then we might have a chance of controlling this horrid virus.

BlueBelle. I do agree and I have read the evidence - tons of it. The countries with fewer lockdowns or none having far fewer deaths.
However, strange as it may be, I do keep to the rules. I have only been out once in fact since last March, to go to the Dentist for an emergency visit. I do not at the moment want to upset people who are frightened and who are being so careful and doing what they are asked. I admire them for their fortitude and would not upset them. So I go along with the rules and wait for the time when all this passes. I think there will be a time when people realise that this is doing no good. so many very knowledgeable top scientists, Doctors of Epidemiology and Micro biology and virology and so on as well as Economists and people watching the effects of different policies on different countries will outweigh the government's views. The government has not been taking the best advice and has not been able to explain why it has used false numbers in the past, even though they have been challenged in the House.
Because the effects of the lockdowns have cost so much in loss of lives, loss of businesses built up by very hard work, many deaths from diseases not treated and not shown to have saved lives from covid, it makes the second lockdown even more questionable. I would say questionable to the point of suspicious. Why would a small group of wealthy people - the Cabinet - want to ruin the country and the lives of the people like this for no real benefit? They lied last time and they are lying again. These are not my words, they are the words of many very expert Scientists who study coronaviruses and who have looked at the evidence. For example youtu.be/ZnpnBYgGARE. Prof Bhakdi.

I am very lucky because I have reason to believe that whatever earthly Rulers choose to do, everything is in God's hands. Psalm 37 v5 Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

We had the first lockdown, and mostly people kept to the rules, but when lockdown finished instead of slipping into some sort of normality slowly we had the government throwing everything open and getting people to go out and about. So surprise surprise we were hit with a second wave. Now we are in lockdown for 4 weeks but to be honest it doesn't feel like a lockdown there are still loads of car travelling somewhere and groups of people out and about. Dec 2nd will see a mad rush to see love ones and family and shop. We will then have a 3rd wave. So it goes on until lockdown means nothing to people. I am afraid we will just have to wait for this vaccine and hope the promise of it is not another load of hot air.

So sorry to hear about your lovely friend, Susieq62 for you.

I challenged somebody to move further away from me in the petrol station . She was nit wearing a mask and too close to me. I was verbally assaulted but chose not to retaliate. Nobody supported me in the queue and the petrol attendant did not challenge her not wearing a mask.
So, until we all sing from the same hymn sheet we will not get through this very quickly. One of my oldest , most cherished friends died of Covid in hospital last week. She did not have it when she went in, having fallen and broken her pelvis. She caught the virus in there. We are all devastated. Just wear a mask, stay away from folk and avoid crowded places.

Wisconsin, where my DD lives, has no restrictions at all, because the Republicans have legally challenged them and won. Consequently, it is constantly on the American news as the state where the virus is completely out of control, with the infection rate soaring and the hospitals full. That's what happens when there are no restrictions in place.

The virus may become part of our lives or it may not. We don't know. We do know that that we can reduce its spread with lock downs and subsequent restrictions. We also know that there are vaccines on the horizon and we need to hang on until then.

My other DD caught the virus at work. I am worried sick about her because she is asthmatic and the doctor says that she may be developing pneumonia. She is on antibiotics. I'll admit that I am scared.

I think that we all have to sit tight until a vaccine is available. As old people, we are the most affected and, in most cases, the most able to isolate as we haven't got jobs and little kids to worry about. We should just get on with it. That's my belief, anyway.

Thank you, Rufus2. I thought that the compliance must be much higher than here. Now I know why! Pity it is not like that here. The trouble is that there are not enough police around to control it.

This “lockdown” isn’t what I would call a serious lockdown, everything is just as normal for the big shops it is only small independents which are suffering. Obviously cafes and pubs too are suffering if they can’t offer takeaways. I’ve seen families visiting each other locally and staying overnight. In all honesty folk just carry on as normal UNLESS Covid has affected their families. We are only going out to Sainsburys once a week and to take dogs out. I had a 50minute appointment at my dentist last Thursday for a complicated filling just hope I haven’t caught Covid.

Talking about police, halfpint1, I was really upset by how Devon and Cornwall were treating people as shown on UK Column news at 1 pm today. Someone took a video so it's not a case of fake news!