Time to admit this virus affects some more than others.

I saw that too Alegrias2 and it brought tears to my eyes. How simply dreadful to see people living like this in the 21st Century. The worst of it is their lives will only be marginally better post covid. I don't know how some politicians sleep at night.

Yes, it made me cry as well. I'm still in touch with a man, who is almost 50 years old now, who I first met when he was six. He's politically active. Recently he responded in support of Marcus Rashford's campaign for school meals throughout the holidays. He recorded memories from when he was six years old and cold, hungry and scared. It distresses me that some people have no understanding of how hard life is for many children and adults of all ages. Many of those people are currently running our country

trisher me too. It's also made me very angry.

Thank you for that Alegrias2 It made me cry but it should be on every news bulletin. It tells some truths and makes you appreciate what you actually have.

For the people who think "we're all in this together" is some call to the resurrect the spirit of the Blitz, and if only people would obey the rules.......watch this and remember that we are the 5th biggest economy in the world, and that this is the 21st Century.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-55133081

People are now more than happy to just make up their own facts. It's really worrying.

No trisher it isn’t, but I think the pandemic will be remembered and go down in history like the Black Death did, and I think our efforts to contain the virus in various ways such as masks and hand gels will be remembered, but I think it will be remembered alongside the race to find to find a successful vaccine.

maddyone

I think future generations will think how wonderful that medical scientists all over the world managed to produce effective vaccines so quickly.

That may be so but that really isn't anythng to do with the epidemic, deaths and the way it impacted on the population is it? I suppose the better off Victorians looked on cholera as being mostly the fault of the poor.

There are far more worrying things around the prevention and spread of Covid by well spaced out children on school buses, they are certainly not packed in this year. I shall have to leave the last words with you....Not only because I can’t be bothered but because whatever I say you will have your own ideas about it.Which is fine (by me).

I think future generations will think how wonderful that medical scientists all over the world managed to produce effective vaccines so quickly.

lemongrove

Glad you had a good splutter trisher?
The answer is yes, many times as I live in a rural area.Haven’t seen any standing up going on, but being a school bus I haven’t actually sat on it to witness.There is standing up next to each other and leaning and jostling past going on in any secondary school setting though.
This preoccupation with school buses is perplexing.
Going back to the subject of cars ( you do seem to think only the better off have them) a good proportion of the UK are two car families, and in any case, this year with Covid and all the many people working from home means that even one car families can usually take children to school.

I live just round the corner from a school with transport arranged. I sometimes watch the bus stopped atthe traffic lights. You don't need to be on it to see what the children are doing.
Here's a link to transport poverty lemon www.poverty.ac.uk/report-transport/transport-poverty-hits-15-million-people
It really is getting harder to survive in rural communities for the poor especially. And the evidence is that the better off have more access to cars. How can you "work from home" if you are an agricultural worker or employed in an abbatoir or chicken factory on minimum wage?

lemongrove

growstuff

So you've seen jostling in school settings since September, have you?

I've loaded more school buses over the years than I care to remember and I know how packed they are. There's also some poor behaviour.

The point is that using a school bus is a very real additional risk. I can't understand why you find that perplexing.

Yes, I have. I even witnessed a fight in the school grounds, with many children all round and shouting and egging them on.

What about inside the building?

lemongrove

Glad you had a good splutter trisher?
The answer is yes, many times as I live in a rural area.Haven’t seen any standing up going on, but being a school bus I haven’t actually sat on it to witness.There is standing up next to each other and leaning and jostling past going on in any secondary school setting though.
This preoccupation with school buses is perplexing.
Going back to the subject of cars ( you do seem to think only the better off have them) a good proportion of the UK are two car families, and in any case, this year with Covid and all the many people working from home means that even one car families can usually take children to school.

You don't seem to get it. Working from home creates inequality because many of the people who can't work from home do jobs which require face-to-face contact. That's why there's been a high percentage of care workers and transport staff who have been affected. Delivery drivers and others on zero hours contracts are generally low paid and can't afford to take time off work.

There might very well be many two car families, but they won't be the lowest paid.

growstuff

So you've seen jostling in school settings since September, have you?

I've loaded more school buses over the years than I care to remember and I know how packed they are. There's also some poor behaviour.

The point is that using a school bus is a very real additional risk. I can't understand why you find that perplexing.

Yes, I have. I even witnessed a fight in the school grounds, with many children all round and shouting and egging them on.

I imagine that future generations, looking back will wonder why so many people, when presented with the facts chose to disobey by not wearing a mask, having parties, huge weddings, huge funerals and going on demonstrations, many of which were about curtailing their freedoms.

So you've seen jostling in school settings since September, have you?

I've loaded more school buses over the years than I care to remember and I know how packed they are. There's also some poor behaviour.

The point is that using a school bus is a very real additional risk. I can't understand why you find that perplexing.

lemongrove

Doesn’t sound like what goes on at teenage DGS school ,and
With the best organised school in the world I think it won’t be any better than a sparsely used school bus.
We shall have to agree to disagree on this...otherwise it will bore the pants off other posters.?

Even a bus which is only half-full could hardly be described as "sparsely used". School buses are jam packed in normal times. Even if half those eligible don't use them, the children will still be less than a metre from the nearest pupil.

Have you actually been into your DGS's school? Have you seen for yourself what is going on? Headteachers have done their best to minimise risk, but there's a limit to what they can do without extra funding and resources.

In any case, school buses are an additional risk for those who can't avoid them.

Glad you had a good splutter trisher?
The answer is yes, many times as I live in a rural area.Haven’t seen any standing up going on, but being a school bus I haven’t actually sat on it to witness.There is standing up next to each other and leaning and jostling past going on in any secondary school setting though.
This preoccupation with school buses is perplexing.
Going back to the subject of cars ( you do seem to think only the better off have them) a good proportion of the UK are two car families, and in any case, this year with Covid and all the many people working from home means that even one car families can usually take children to school.

lemongrove

They can ( should) be wearing masks.They are not facing each other on the bus either.

This caused me to almost splutter tea all over my laptop with laughter. Have you ever seen a school bus lemon? It's a miracle if every chld is sitting down.
I was thinking (being a bit of a historian) about the cholera outbreaks in the 19th century and how we trace the districts in cities where deaths happened. The areas with poor sanitatation and polluted water supplies things we now recognise as totally unacceptable and I wondered what future generations will think when they look at this epidemic?

All cases bar one have impacted on those travelling on buses at our local school. If you are in say year 7 and travelling on a bus you are more at risk of missing school for a fortnight than a year 7 who travels by car. Year 7 with a car only impacted by infections in year 7 bubble, year 7 on bus impacted by infections in year 7 bubble and infections on the bus (multiple years).

Doesn’t sound like what goes on at teenage DGS school ,and
With the best organised school in the world I think it won’t be any better than a sparsely used school bus.
We shall have to agree to disagree on this...otherwise it will bore the pants off other posters.?

lemongrove

Yes growstuff parents will avoid school or any buses if they can do for their children.....which is fine.
As I said, leaves more space on the bus for those who need it.
I can’t see much difference to being in the school, where they are more likely to touch/jostle etc.

There's a huge difference. Schools have completely re-organised the school day, so there is minimum movement in schools. Pupils from different year groups have staggered breaks and lunch times and are only allowed to use their year group toilets, etc. Schools cannot control what happens on buses. Buses are an additional risk, but avoiding them needs resources.

Yes growstuff parents will avoid school or any buses if they can do for their children.....which is fine.
As I said, leaves more space on the bus for those who need it.
I can’t see much difference to being in the school, where they are more likely to touch/jostle etc.

How will we manage with all the proposes job losses? Less people paying taxes, people will hold fire on all but unnecessary purchases. The knock on effect will be awful. However, health has to come first I know.

Good OP trisher and a good discussion so far.
My local Labour facebook page printed a list of Clement Attlee's achievements this week. All the points made here about inequality, income, health, housing, education were covered by Attlee's work.
It's clear that some ethnicities are more likely to develop illnesses like diabetes 1 or 2, others less likely to develop, say breast cancer. Research will be continuing to understand links to DNA/diet. There can be no denying that wealth/housing/education/employment are significant issues where covid is concerned

Urmstongran, sorry to read about your daughter. We have a friend in mid 30's who is six weeks into illness/fatique from a 'mild' infection of covid.