NHS staff NOT first in the queue for vaccine

Casdon

It’s about relative risk though, isn’t it? Vaccinating inpatients over 80 first is a good way of protecting them as early as possible from the virus, as they are most likely to die if they pick it up.
400,000 vaccines won’t cover everybody who is top priority, whichever way you cut it - but staff will be first in line for the next consignment, and I know those on the front line will say vaccinate the patients first if that will save more lives.

Yes, of course, it makes absolute sense to prioritise elderly people, they are the ones most at risk of dying, or being seriously ill.

I think you have summed it up perfectly growstuff. I always respect you posts,even without a Phd?.
I must admit I admire your resilience. From February onwards I researched the background to the virus with interest. We seemed to be faced with an unbelievable situation. I dont think then even my high levels of cynicism could have anticipated the incredible incompetence of the Governments handling of the crisis. I remember watching Johnson address the country with a feeling of hope we might be ok.
That soon disappeared, primarily due to the lies they told about care homes.,oh and PPE,and test and trace....
On here and other forums I've seen examples of peoples almost blind trust in that if the government say to do it it must be in our best interests and safe whether it be going on holiday, eat out to help out,or the anticipated Christmas covid spreading feast.
I dont know whether people are selfish,stupid or just plain scared but in denial. I think I've given up trying to work it out. People will believe what suits there own agenda, so apart from the rare occasion I stick my head over the parapet, I let them get on with it!
Am I negative? I think I would view it as realistic.
Yes,the vaccination does appear to have arrived quickly but then it's a global emergency. Is it safe? Probably as safe as any medication. I think it's a case of reading the small print. It's not a magic bullet,for longer than we anticipate we will have to continue with other measures.
The hoped for outcome is Covid wont kill you and you wont suffer from the affects of the virus. That's good news. However anyone who saw the Surving Covid documentary this week couldnt help but be truly shocked by being reminded how very different this virus is.
My personal belief has always been that we are at the beginning of a very long journey. It may be years before we have access to a full picture of how this virus works.
A vaccine may just be a sticking plaster,it may make life more liveable for many people, but it's not foolproof.
I'm certainly not an antivaxxer.
Coincidentally at the beginning of the first lockdown there was a film from the early 1960s about a smallpox outbreak in UK. A horrible disease that thanks to vaccines has been eradicated. It was fascinating to see how the outbreak was thwarted by local health authority tracing contacts , isolating and vaccinating. The same scenario was true of Salisbury poisonings. In retrospect I remember the daily briefings and the firm questions regarding testing and tracing. To have got it so wrong is inexcusable.
I dont bother watching any daily briefings now. I catch up with the news daily. Other than pondering how dreadful Johnson looks and hoping someone buys Hancock a new tie for Christmas I dont see the point!

100% with you Dorsetcupcake (apart from your praise of me ). I don't think I'm particularly resilient, although I think I've faced up to reality and tried to work out positive solutions, not least financially.

I get a bit fed up with the gaslighting about mental health by people, some of whom have probably never bothered about mental health ever, but it's an extra weapon in their armoury to oppose lockdowns.

Over the last nine months, I have only left my house to go to the pharmacy, doctor and dentist. I have spoken to my son and my neighbour face to face - and that's it. My small business collapsed and I get no help from the government. If I really were negative, that would all have got to me by now, but I haven't let it.

I don't watch TV and have only seen snippets of any briefings. I can't stand Johnson's voice (with his stupid hyperboles, superlatives and emphasis on random words) and forced myself to watch his last briefing. I rarely read any of the main stream media (apart from finding out what nonsense they're peddling), but do read selected media, including foreign online press, watch Independent Sage's weekly meeting and follow up references in respected journals.

Other than that, I keep myself surprisingly busy with hobbies and Zoom chats.

Like most other people, I was looking forward to being vaccinated some time next year, which would have reduced my personal risk, but I cannot trust one single promise this government makes.

I think there is a massive difference between blind trust and
Celebrating the wonderful efforts of scientists to produce a vaccine, and hoping to receive a vaccination early next year.
Not believing a word that our government says is just as bad as believing every word ( that any government says.) You also have to remember that a lot of cynical and negative posts are made by people who very much dislike the fact that we have a Conservative government and do all they can via their comments to rubbish almost any advance/ good outcome.
The hardest thing ( for quite a few years now) is not being able to put any trust in news items without checking various sources constantly...even The Guardian gets things wrong and now and then the BBC sites.
Being cautiously optimistic seems the best route through it, and being able to celebrate the good things that happen, such as the efforts of scientists to produce a vaccine so quickly.

PS. I remember the early 60s smallpox scare. There was an outbreak in my town and I remember that my mother was quite anxious. My sisters and I were dragged off to be vaccinated. A couple of years later I was hospitalised with meningitis after mumps. Apparently, I was seriously ill, although I don't remember much because I was delirious. I do remember that the hospital stay traumatised me for many years because the staff were so horrible.

I happen to know one of those wonderful scientists. Of course I think what he and the others have done is fantastic, although I don't think he would appreciate blind celebration.

Is there anything this government does that isn’t a bloody shambles?

This

I rest my case ?
Everything is terrible isn’t it Whitewave .......even though next week elderly people will be vaccinated against the danger of a ghastly illness and death!

Lemongrove in a bit worried..... I agree with everything you said in your 8:10 post. Very well put.

I'm going for a lie down now ?

My medic Dil was hoping to be one of the first to have the jab as lots of new cases of COVID in her hospital. Have just read an email from DS telling me that (he thinks) he has now fully recovered from it, four weeks on??.

I remember people saying ( usually in pubs back then) that
‘Everything this Wilson government does is a bloody shambles’! It was easy then to make that kind of lazy generalisation when times were difficult, and just as easy now to do it.
This government gets some things wrong and some things right.All countries are having a hard time right now and will do for some years to come.

Alegrias....perhaps you’re getting into the Christmas spirit
? ( although I’m just having a cup of tea as it’s early.)

lemongrove

I rest my case ?
Everything is terrible isn’t it Whitewave .......even though next week elderly people will be vaccinated against the danger of a ghastly illness and death!

Your remarks are just like your remarks “project fear”

It is a very sterile argument.

lemongrove

I rest my case ?
Everything is terrible isn’t it Whitewave .......even though next week elderly people will be vaccinated against the danger of a ghastly illness and death!

You have to distinguish between scientific achievement which is fantastic and government delivery which is diabolical.

welbeck

i've made this point on another thread re the vaccine.
actually, when you read the article it seems unlikely that care home staff or residents will be in the first group.

I read an article saying that the logistics of moving and storing the vaccine makes it unlikely that care home staff and residents will be first to be vaccinated. The vaccine is being stored in over 50 NHS hubs with the appropriate cold storage. It will be a case of going to them rather than the other way round making it trickier for care homes.

I think that the issue is that initially the government led people believe that NHS staff would be first. However age being the greatest indicator of mortality when covid strikes, more deaths can be prevented by targeting care homes/elderly. The bottom line is the confusion and erroding of confidence is damaging the government. It feels like they don't have a plan, or people doing the announcing don't have authority. Or maybe they haven't read the plan?

I'm sorry to hear about your business Growstuff. Like you I have kept social interaction to a minimum,but I'm happy with that if that's what it takes.
I'm currently in process of a job application with the civil service,including a pre recorded interview over the next day or so. Although the majority of the work can be done from home a vaccination would have been a game changer.
I'm a big fan of Independent Sage too. Even they seem a little weary about how this is being handled.
I think it will take a while for the impact on mental health to become apparent. Inside and outside of lock down people are affected. For many who are high risk but whose job doesnt enable them to work from home the stress has been incredible with many frontline workers falling ill and or resigning from jobs.
I think Lemongrove its vital to be aware of the political aspect of news sites as few are unbiased and a lot of harm is done by selective sensationalism.
I also think this situation should be above politics. Ordinarily I think we are all aware of way politicians speak and put a spin on subjects etc.
Maybe naively I hoped that any government in power would do the best for the country both in terms of health and the economy. Not only has this not happened but its downright embarrassing.
It's not a case of not celebrating the good news of the vaccine. There have been many tremendous achievements during the pandemic where people work for the greater good.
Instead it's a sense of sadness of what could have been and what could be.
All governments have been challenged by the pandemic.
If in theory all the doses of vaccine for everyone who needed them were here tomorrow I'm not sure I have faith in the government to effectively deliver them.
Transparency would really help. If I was told the vaccine wouldnt be available until mid 2021 I could work with that. Anything is better than an increasingly long list of u turns ,bluster,and empty promises.

It wouldn't matter what the criteria were for getting the vaccine, -someone- would object. They would have good justifications for and against.

This doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with the decisions made.

However, the sooner vaccination starts, with whoever has been chosen, the sooner the opportunity to be vaccinated reaches the rest of those who need it. Lets be thankful that the process is starting.

That was supposed to be someone !

I think the general order is ok. I'm a teacher and want a vaccine BUT I'm fine with being very low on the list.

I still think healthcare workers should be first. We need them there for the rest of us if case we're unlucky enough to catch Covid. IMO, the elderly should come 2nd.

Statistics show that a the infection-fatality rate is higher in the over 75s than it is in healthcare workers. Those residing in residential homes have been top of the list, followed by care home workers, which is why they have been prioritised. If they aren't being hospitalised, they won't take infections into hospitals and NHS staff will be better able to cope.

Whatever anyone decides won’t sit well with someone. The government can’t do right for doing wrong, and now the wrong people are being vaccinated first? I just pray it works, and that unexpected side effects don’t wipe out our entire NHS staff!! Then we really would be stuffed. Happy Christmas everyone ?.

I so agree with you GagaJo and actually think you as teacher should be higher too. I am way down the priority list, it doesn't bother me too much. I could easily stay cocooned at home, but choose not to. If I were a vulnerable very elderly person I might even choose to give my jab to a nurse first if I could. You're right we need healthcare workers to stay healthy to be there for us if we catch Covid, but we also need them kept healthy to man all the other departments in the hospitals.

Daisymae

I think that the issue is that initially the government led people believe that NHS staff would be first. However age being the greatest indicator of mortality when covid strikes, more deaths can be prevented by targeting care homes/elderly. The bottom line is the confusion and erroding of confidence is damaging the government. It feels like they don't have a plan, or people doing the announcing don't have authority. Or maybe they haven't read the plan?

No, they didn't. Initially, they stuck with the JCVI priority list, which has always stated that care home residents and workers would be first.

Then the government did a U turn and said on Tuesday that NHS workers would be prioritised because there are problems with transport and storage, which they've known about for months, so they could actually have planned for that.

Then there was yet another U turn yesterday. Now care home workers will be first on the list, if they can get to one of the hospital hubs, plus any over 80s (not necessarily care home residents) who are already inpatients or are due to go to an outpatient appointment within a narrow timeframe.

What really annoys me is the lack of transparency and planning. The government has known about the logistical problems for ages, but has brushed them aside. It must have known for weeks that there would be problems getting the vaccine to care homes.

Additionally, it has now said the tests which would have enabled care home residents to have visitors are unreliable.

It would appear that there won't be any new doses of the vaccine until the new year because Pfizer has problems in its supply chain, so people who might have been looking forward to seeing friends and relatives at Christmas (maybe their last Christmas) have had their hopes built up and been let down.