Social distancing in Christmas bubbles

We have decided to have a Zoom present opening of our presents to each other, and another later in the day for general conversation.

We won’t be seeing my dd and gc at Christmas. It’s a hard decision as we will miss seeing the children opening our/their gifts and will be alone for the whole time, but as has been said we have been careful for 10 months, we can hold our a bit longer. To be safe. Plan is a delayed family meet up in the spring. Sad but much sadder if one of us was missing next Christmas.

That's just how we see it Rosina.

Canada has had a terrible rise in infection rates which seems to have started at Thanksgiving. We mustn’t make the same mistake here....

I've stuck to the rules and missed so much this year; so have my immediate family. If there had been no hope in sight we would probably have worn a mask, and seen each other as close to the rules as we could be on Christmas Day.
As it is, we have hope, we have a vaccine, and I will not fall at the last hurdle and with the end in sight. It's not worth it for a roast dinner that we can have later in 2021.

SpanielNanny I appreciate you coming back and explaining your reasoning and demographic details about the low risk of contracting Covid by household mixing in your town. Thank you. It is interesting, and I agree with you that possibly people may feel complacent if after family fun at Christmas they escape virus free.

However there are so many variables to take into consideration aren’t there? My area has a many more cases of Covid than yours per head of population, and many may be travelling from high risk areas over Christmas to see loved ones in lower risk areas. University students will be travelling home from all over the U.K., and children, particularly secondary school age, where the virus is spreading, will be mixing with their GPs.

Listening to the Alternative Sage Group today (Fridays 1.30 YouTube) they gave their 3 Point Plan for Christmas, available on their website, which made much more sense than the Government’s. They also mentioned that lateral flow tests can give a faulty sense of security, in that a huge 50% can be false negatives. How concerning is that?

Lastly, everyone has to weigh up their individual risk, which may indeed be low, BUT this year figures show that 1 in 1,000 people have died of Covid.
Which means of course that 999 haven’t, but for each one person in a thousand, there are grieving relatives and a life cut short.

My grandchildren are going to be with us for lunch on Christmas Day.They are going to have a table in the conservatory and separate dishes of food,we will eat in the dining room with our dishes of food.We are trying to be sensible and staying as far apart as possible,but still able to chat.

Close your eyes and imagine all of your loved ones surrounding you. Nice, isn't it. Now imagine that one or more of those people are not there in the next 3-6 months because everyone thought we couldn't wait to gather. It's another what? Six months? I love my loved ones enough to wait. I can do this. It stinks! Yes, I hate it. But, waiting won't kill me. I wish you all a safe and loving holiday. Merry Christmas.

Mapleleaf

We won't be mixing, and, like so many others this means not seeing loved ones we normally would at this time (Some of those we wont have seen for a year). However, in order to keep them, us and others safe, we've decided it's better to stay put and not mix in close, confined spaces no matter how hard it is. Some people just don't get it, I'm afraid, but whatever the Government advises, some will interpret things to suit their own agenda, and do their own thing believing the virus couldn't possibly target them and theirs, only other people... ?

I totally agree with you. We’re in a similar position.
My neighbour’s daughter is a nurse on the coronary care unit of a big London hospital. She has tested positive for Covid as have all the nurses on the ward and all the patients unfortunately. Now these are staff used to using PPE and understand how cross infections can occur. It was a Covid free ward but they still used basic PPE. However the virus has still spread despite them being tested twice weekly. So sitting 2m apart and opening windows may help for 30 mins but it isn’t going to stop infection over a Christmas Day.
It’s people that travel not the virus.
I’m imagining how that hospital ward is going to be staffed- will some of the patients die from Covid as they are all vulnerable and how many others waiting for urgent treatment will be postponed.
We all need to think of the inevitable toll on the NHS when there is a spike in infection after Christmas. The vaccine is on its way we just need to hold firm for a while longer to see our families.

My daughter is a carer and will be working. We get a flying visit on 27th. We will do basic stuff like clean the handles and have a window open..

I am having my daughter and her family for Boxing Day only and will be having a finger buffet with paper plates!! But still excited to see them

The government and scientists have been clear - yes you CAN see family for Christmas but that does not mean you should. They have said we need to weigh the risk carefully before deciding whether you should meet family at Christmas - its ONE Christmas for the vast majority of people, better safe than the massive increase in cases we are bound to see in the New Year. The main reason they have allowed this relaxation for a few days is because they strongly suspected a fair number of people would ignore the rules anyway - at least this way they can provide advice to try to ensure Christmas family gatherings are as safe as possible. Not to mention taking pressure off the police who would have to enfore the law.

I am doing the same, and to be honest looking forward to the peace and quiet

Dr John was saying in his blog that countries that have been successful in combatting the virus also contact trace backwards because it’s only a small percentage of people that spread the virus; the superspreaders. I can’t pretend to understand it fully but it sort of made sense. I guess he meant to combat the virus you need to know where it’s come from not just who it’s been passed on to.

Oh Esspee, how terribly sad.

Well I will be on my own. I have declined my DD invitation to hers and husband’s which would have included 2 teenaged GC plus his parents on Christmas Day. They are planning as usual to spend a French Christmas Eve at his parents with his brother and partner, which I am invited to but have refused also. It is sad but there will be plenty other times as I am planning to live to at least 100 and I want to see my third daughter’s future children.

My brother’s nice old neighbour has died. Lovely old man with a reasonable quality of life. He had been isolating but a friend turned up with a couple of their mates to his home as a surprise on his birthday. One week later he was in hospital. He never came home.
Now the friend who organised the surprise is devastated.

Greeneyedgirl I did some demographic research as a favour to a friend during the first lockdown. I don’t just know lots of facts about the population of my town

It’s certainly true that most transmission occurs within households Greeneyedgirl , I’m not disputing that. But if you don’t have COVID, you can’t pass it on, and statistically the majority of the population do not have COVID and so aren’t able to infect anyone.

For example: in my town last week, just under 200 people tested positive. The WHO estimates that up to 80% of cases are mild or asymptomatic so that would make potentially 1000 cases. Even if the figures are way off and we multiply that by 10, saying my town had 10,000 cases (which is probably a huge exaggeration), that is less than 10% of its population. Now lets assume that each of those hypothetical cases live in different households (unlikely, I know) my town has over 46,000 occupied households. It would mean that three quarters of them could get together, lick each other’s faces, and not pass on COVID (although I would advise against that! )

My concern is that the large number of people who don’t have the virus and so can’t and won’t pass it on become complacent. The 5 days ends, they all remain healthy and so continue to mix, even though the rules no longer allow it.

I am waiting to hear what is said on 16th December. We are lucky, our Christmas this year was only going to be us and DD, who is in our bubble. This year DS and family are with his DW's family, but they planned to come down to us on 28th December.

We have a very strong reason for not breaking any rules. DDiL works for the NHS, nothing to do with the clinical side, she does not even work on a medical site or do anything medical, but, in the NHS, breaking the COVID rules is a disciplinary offence and, new in her job, she is being extra careful.

Nelly99

I’m so upset my daughter had her first baby a few weeks ago , she wants me to take the baby just for a night so they can have a rest ... trouble is I know the other side of the family have been seeing her too , which includes several people . I’ve stayed in since last April , of course I want to help , I want to snuggle that little baby more than anything but can I ? Should I ? And I feel like to say no is being horrible and I don’t want to upset my daughter or make her feel like I’m being stupid. Trouble is how do I say it without feeling bad ? And just how do I say it ? I’m torn I feel so cruel . Help please ?

Don't really know what to say Nelly. Are you locked down because you are at risk yourself or is it just your age? Your DD must understand why you are worried. Could you take the baby for a walk so she can have even a short break for a shower and rest a while.

My daughter gave birth just before the first lock down. I did get to see her a couple of times but not again until the summer. I would have gone to her and maybe even moved in, leaving higher risk DH here to cope.

If the rest of the family are intruding too much the baby's daddy needs to tell them to stay away a while to give the new mum some space. Maybe they could do what lots of us did and take turns with the baby while the other sleeps.

Hopefully others will have some ideas.

Whoops. SpanielNanny not SpecialNanny

What do you base your belief on the the majority won’t SpecialNanny I wonder? As I understand the evidence Covid is mainly spread within households.

Well it will just be me and Mr Barmey and the cat over Christmas. I am ECV and don't intend to go into anyones house, family or friend. My son will come over one day over Christmas but it will be an outside visit to exchange presents and I won't be seeing any of the GC or GGC. I have also made the difficult choice of not seeing my disabled daughter who lives on her own over Christmas, she just doesn't take any precautions to stay safe.
This government has made a huge mistake in giving us all 5 days freedom to be paid for by more deaths and lockdowns. Why can't they just be hard and cancel Christmas this year. I know that people will break the rules if they don't give us this freedom but will it be that many. Happy Christmas everyone.

I think the government are nuts allowing this. Its an extra large Sunday dinner! Just my sis and I thank goodness. I have friends that their 'kids' have huffed and are now not even speaking to them because they don't want them all to meet up in their house like they normally do. They don't realise that my friends are missing out too not seeing their grandkids on Xmas Day, but it's something they feel they have to do to stay safe.