Close the schools!

Positive tests showing up cases are not the whole picture. It's real illness, hospital admissions and deaths associated with schools that I would like to see data for.

I think one of the reasons so many people are so scared is that news media have focussed on cases rather than bad effects. Most people who test positive are not ill.

Most people who test positive are not ill.

But they may pass it to someone else.

That's the problem

Yesterday, there were 24,957 confirmed Covid patients in English hospitals. 2,181 were in mechanical ventilation beds.

I suppose they're all there for a laugh!

Baggs

Positive tests showing up cases are not the whole picture. It's real illness, hospital admissions and deaths associated with schools that I would like to see data for.

I think one of the reasons so many people are so scared is that news media have focussed on cases rather than bad effects. Most people who test positive are not ill.

Admissions are currently higher than the peak at April with the peak a couple of weeks away IF we lock down today.

Some hospitals are struggling to find enough oxygen and are starting to ration it.

According to reliable sources late last night anyway

The next thing is to cancel exams.

Those children have so much pressure and missed schooling it is totally unfair to expect them to be able to be at their best.

I agree WWM.

Why don't we just extend state funded education by a year? Let all of this years cohort redo this year, starting next September (supposing that covid under control by then). Sit exams a year later.

Whitewavemark2

The next thing is to cancel exams.

Those children have so much pressure and missed schooling it is totally unfair to expect them to be able to be at their best.

I do agree with cancelling exams however, it would have to be across all of the UK to be fair to this years cohort.

I also think that sixth form colleges should increase places on access courses in September 2021 ( dependant on the education system operating as normal )

Nezumi65

Baggs

Positive tests showing up cases are not the whole picture. It's real illness, hospital admissions and deaths associated with schools that I would like to see data for.

I think one of the reasons so many people are so scared is that news media have focussed on cases rather than bad effects. Most people who test positive are not ill.

Admissions are currently higher than the peak at April with the peak a couple of weeks away IF we lock down today.

Some hospitals are struggling to find enough oxygen and are starting to ration it.

According to reliable sources late last night anyway

Do you have a link to the reliable sources, please, nezumi?

John Crace

Jeremy Hunt declares UDI from Boris

Jeremy Hunt

Time to act: we need to close schools, borders, and ban all household mixing RIGHT AWAY.

Check them out for yourself Baggs.

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Whitewavemark2

John Crace

Jeremy Hunt declares UDI from Boris

Jeremy Hunt

Time to act: we need to close schools, borders, and ban all household mixing RIGHT AWAY.

I spotted that too.

Do you think Hunt is starting his leadership bid?

Crikey Hunt is certainly not keeping to the script.

Thanks for the link, growstuff, but so far as I could tell that data does not give information about numbers of teachers and schoolkids badly affected by covid which is what I'm interested in as it is the only data that can tell us how safe schools are or aren't.

I read yesterday that they only started studying the effects of covid in children in mid December. This was the NIH (I think). Not sure if any other studies have been done. I don’t understand why every hospital admission can’t be put into a computer to collate everything. Maybe it is being done but I haven’t read anything to that effect.

I suspect they are MayBee, but the results aren't made available to the public for data protection reasons.

Baggs

Thanks for the link, growstuff, but so far as I could tell that data does not give information about numbers of teachers and schoolkids badly affected by covid which is what I'm interested in as it is the only data that can tell us how safe schools are or aren't.

The data isn't available, but you're missing the point. Children can and do transmit to other pupils and family members.

Schools in Scotland are staying closed till February

LibDem leader Ed Davey says-

"The govt has completely lost control of the Covid crisis once again, and it is costing thousands of lives. Boris Johnson must announce a national lockdown. With the NHS really struggling, we simply cannot allow yet more dither and delay from this govt.

We also need a full and comprehensive economic plan for businesses and self-employed people, to help communities with the unbelievable pressure they are under. Otherwise this new year will bring another wave of closures, redundancies and bankruptcies.

And we need Parliament back. We need scrutiny of this crisis, especially the vaccine rollout. Govt have failed every challenge through this crisis. If Johnson fails on the vaccine rollout, the cost in lives, mental health and the economy will be too high to bear. "

twitter.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1346045324310302720?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

growstuff

Baggs

Thanks for the link, growstuff, but so far as I could tell that data does not give information about numbers of teachers and schoolkids badly affected by covid which is what I'm interested in as it is the only data that can tell us how safe schools are or aren't.

The data isn't available, but you're missing the point. Children can and do transmit to other pupils and family members.

I'm not missing the point, gs. I'm asking for evidence/data about the claim about children transmitting the virus and how dangerous that actually is.

Which is not to say that I deny children can be transmitters. I'm sure they can be. I'm asking whether it is really as risky as is being made out.

So far no answers to that.

"We simply cannot allow yet more dither and delay from this govt." Close and remain closed.

I don’t think this is a situation where we have to wait for hard evidence before we take action because evidence takes a while to become valid. I think we have, in some cases, to act instinctively and use common sense. Look at the arguments against mask wearing in March: stopping testing and tracing in the spring because ‘ the virus was already in the community’.

We were told that teens don't spread the virus, masks weren't necessary, to eat out, and that schools were to reopen and parents would be fined if they didn't comply.

Now we're reaping what we've sown.

The evidence is there, but it's not filtering through to the government's "big data" spreadsheets, which don't tell the whole story.

For months, local leaders, headteachers, GPs etc have been complaining that they haven't been given data, so they can act proactively. Unless the local context is known, it's difficult to act. The tracking and tracing function should have been given to local authorities, who have experience in public health and know their areas.

Locals often know what's going on, but it's not reflected in the spreadheets. The Leicester sweatshops was a classic example, as are the schools which have been sending pupils and staff home. There's been almost nothing in the national press about the extent of the problem.

So the schools are to close a day after they open

Absolutely indefensible!!

The only real worry I have about closing secondary schools, if this becomes necessary, is that it will excacerbate the problem of large groups of teens roaming the streets together, gathering in supermarket car parks near the entrances and exits (which is a particular problem where I live) and generally making it more unsafe for the rest of the local population. I am not teenager-bashing, I've seen plenty of older people, middle aged people and 20s and 30s also ignoring the rules, but they generally are in ones or twos, not whole hoardes blocking pathways, shop doorways and footpaths. Unless there are effective patrols that are able to disperse large groups of people then I fear that our supermarket, local footpaths and nearby Common will become another place that I am unable to use safely.