Chris Whitty moves to head off GPs' rebellion over vaccine doses

That was from the BBC news website Whitewave.....so blame them.

I wouldn’t say there was a majority scientific opinion that this is a grand idea outside government circles. Certainly isn’t within the international viral evolution research community (although some variation in opinion as to just how reckless this is).

Laura ? I would certainly want to check his bridge building credentials thoroughly.

lemongrove

It will be a cold day in Hell before I swallow any GNers ( or any social media forum) musings whole on a subject as important as this one.
We can only go on what the majority of scientific evidence and a degree of wanting to give some Covid protection to as many older or vulnerable people as possible tells us.
On the supply chain, the Pfizer vaccine comes from Belgium and the AstraZ here in the UK.

Nope wrong. Oxford coming from Germany and the Netherlands.

What were you saying about accuracy?

Is the FT article behind a paywall WW?

It will be a cold day in Hell before I swallow any GNers ( or any social media forum) musings whole on a subject as important as this one.
We can only go on what the majority of scientific evidence and a degree of wanting to give some Covid protection to as many older or vulnerable people as possible tells us.
On the supply chain, the Pfizer vaccine comes from Belgium and the AstraZ here in the UK.

We do know that the initial supply has to come to the U.K. from Europe, Germany and Netherlands in particular, as there are manufacturing problems in the U.K.
The FT has reported that less than 4 million doses are due.

The FT also suggested that Johnson’s pledge that everyone who wanted to be vaccinated will have been done so by Easter, is hopelessly incorrect.

Personally I think the push for a single vaccine and a delayed second, is as much to do with hopeless promises and the optics of the whole thing as much as anything else.

You wish!

I think it's a bit weird. The Oxford/AZ vaccine is supposed to be rolled out within the next few days. I'm assuming there aren't any supply problems with it (or are there?) If there are no supply problems, everybody from next week could have the Oxford vaccination, so why the rush to vaccinate a couple of hundred people with the Pfizer jab?

Alarm bells started ringing about supply problems with the Pfizer vaccination a couple of weeks ago. During one of the briefings, Johnson refused to answer a question directly about it.

Assuming that we're now being told the whole story, what's been achieved?

About half a million extra people have been given "partial" protection, while half a million won't have the protection they thought they would have. Given that there are about 20 million in the high risk group, half a million is a small percent. After being restricted for nine months, I wouldn't have thought that two weeks would make that much difference.

So why not do the job as intended with the Pfizer vaccine and then start the Oxford/AZ one with the next group of people?

My mind is going round in circles with this. I really don't trust the government to tell the truth and Van Tam has gone down in my estimation. If there are supply problems with both vaccines, don't promise us cavalry coming over the hill (Hancock) and more of the same old rubbish, as Johnson did on Marr this morning. Just tell us the truth!

That's besides the ethical problems, the lack of consent given by people to take part in a trial and the fact you leave vulnerable individuals at more risk for longer.

Which frankly should be enough to at least complete the courses of those who have already started, even if you are determined to then start a study in viral evolution in response to a novel selection pressure.

JVT is unfortunately not an evolutionary biologist.

My concern is not driven by my politics, it is driven by my knowledge of the field I worked in for many years & my understanding of selection pressures and evolution. And the fact that many of those who currently work in that area (in fact more relevant than me - I never worked on viral evolution), are concerned.

LauraNorder

I have a son who is an engineer so if anyone wants a bridge built I’m your man.

More rubbish

lemongrove

I think you need to read from sources not bound up with left wing overviews (no coincidence remember that the biggest nay sayers on here are those who hate the Conservative Party).
I don’t give two hoots who is in charge, just that the UK is doing as well if not better than many countries, and I leave it to scientists working with them to do what is best for as many people in as short a time as is possible, not anecdotal
Comments about ‘daughters’ because frankly, no that isn’t sufficient evidence of anything. Read the comments from accredited scientists like JVT and Chris Whitty and others.

Oh I had no idea that Pfizer was a left wing company???.

So how does getting information from a genetic scientist who has worked on the vaccine not qualify as a reasonable source?

I got the same message from Pfizer and the scientist. Many other scientists, I would say the vast majority understand the risk involved in widening the interlude. It isn’t just whether the recipient will be adequately protected, but there is a risk of viral resistance being developed and mutation.

Of course once this has been tested then we may obtain evidence that extending the interlude is both safe and reasonable, but we don’t have that evidence at the moment.

What other country is willing to do similar? I haven’t read that there is any but I would be interested to know if there is,

No other country in the world is considering going against the directives given by the researchers and developers of the Pfizer vaccine- none. As millions of doses of the AZ vaccine come along- it is essential the Pfizer vaccine programme is done properly, with 2 doses at the right interval.

I have a son who is an engineer so if anyone wants a bridge built I’m your man.

Prof van tam speaks sense and does have the trust of a lot of us. We need clarity and trust in these people.

the uk is doing well if not better than many countries.
Well if “doing better” is a national death toll now rising towards 80,000 Covid deaths without the holiday effect, I wouldn’t like to think what doing worse would look like.

I think there have been some good and reasoned arguments on this thread, from posters who have bothered to inform themselves with such facts as can be gleaned, from many valid sources.

I think you need to read from sources not bound up with left wing overviews (no coincidence remember that the biggest nay sayers on here are those who hate the Conservative Party).
I don’t give two hoots who is in charge, just that the UK is doing as well if not better than many countries, and I leave it to scientists working with them to do what is best for as many people in as short a time as is possible, not anecdotal
Comments about ‘daughters’ because frankly, no that isn’t sufficient evidence of anything. Read the comments from accredited scientists like JVT and Chris Whitty and others.

GrannyGravy13

JVT’s article is an interesting read

If he is talking about the Oxford vaccine, then I have no issue with that.

However the Pfizer should be given as the manufacturers state until further evidence is produced that an extended interlude is safe.

JVT’s article is an interesting read

lemongrove

Since I have done plenty of reading on this subject ( not reading GN posters!) I think what is being done is the best possible thing for as many people as is possible, to get protection from the worst aspects of Covid.
I advise others to do the same....read all about it from as many sources possible......make your own minds up and don’t be swayed by anything on here.

You say the silliest things at times, and you still haven’t answered the question, which speaks volumes doesn’t it?

How about, apart from reading stuff, I have a daughter involved with the vaccine, who is a genetic scientist. Does that qualify as sufficient?

MayBee70

How patronising. That’s what most of us are doing. We just come on here to discuss it and get other people’s opinions as it’s sometimes possible to misinterpret things.

Unfortunately, "Patronising people" seems to have become a mantra of the Conservative Party.

It may work to slow the deluge of new infections, which is the government's main problem just now.
That doesn't mean it's an all-out good idea and doesn't mean that all is well with 'our jabs'.

The Oxford vaccine will probably be more efficacious with a 12 week lag between doses. The Pfizer vaccine is not.

How patronising. That’s what most of us are doing. We just come on here to discuss it and get other people’s opinions as it’s sometimes possible to misinterpret things.