We need to take control

Interesting comments all round and an very interesting OP.

Surely we have to completely lock down to allow ourselves the chance we have been offered by the vaccination. This is no longer (if it ever was) about rights and personal decision; it is about life and death.

However, I do not believe we can ask people to lock down and live on thin air. We must ensure people have enough to live on while we do this. The simplest thing would be to use a form of universal basic income where everybody gets the same amount paid upfront and then monthly. Then it is everybody stays at home except for a narrowed list of key workers.

I think we are currently in a "light" version of a lockdown. There are way too many shops open here and traffic is down only about a third.

Last year there was virtually no traffic. Manufacturing is still allowed and was shut down last time unless it was "essential".

If this pandemic is worse now in terms of spread, surely the restrictions should be tighter.

Oh, I see. Yes those would have a big footfall. We’re just little independent traders?

There are a number of shops open which were closed or just doing click and collect during the first lockdown. Also many pubs, restaurants and cafes are open for takeaways or collections.

Unfortunately I feel that we do need to be stricter with the restrictions if we are going to reduce the infection rate. I could make suggestions but it would be pointless as I don’t thing the government will take any notice of my views!

This time it's life as normal. Everything is open. Tier 4 area

But we don’t have Tiers any more Gagajo we’re in national lockdown.

MawBe

Jaxjacky

Peasblossom local to us open: Thé Rangé, Pound Shop, Garden Centres, B&Q, just some examples. In my view, not necessary.

Just four examples - I agree. I suppose there is some slight logic to B&Q or other DIY places as many people took the opportunity during the first lockdown to have things done to their house or to get on with DIY, but restrictions could still apply.

I don't know what The Range is. B&Q do deliveries, as do some local garden centres.

Willow73

We need to get the vaccine to people who have to work at the moment along with the care home staff, police, firemen and teachers, not the elderly who are in care homes or can stay at home.

There are approximately 20 million people at high risk. Are you seriously condemning them to be locked up until people get their act together?

I've stayed at home since March, apart from going to the GP, diabetic eye test, dentist and pharmacy. I've seen my son twice. Apart from waving at delivery people and posties, I've had to human contact. I would seriously like to have the opportunity to go out by having my risk reduced.

Jaxjacky

Peasblossom local to us open: Thé Rangé, Pound Shop, Garden Centres, B&Q, just some examples. In my view, not necessary.

Just four examples - I agree. I suppose there is some slight logic to B&Q or other DIY places as many people took the opportunity during the first lockdown to have things done to their house or to get on with DIY, but restrictions could still apply.

A bit late to the thread but definitely agree with posters who suggest the two women in Derbyshire was a set up. Who notified the press if they didn’t themselves? The pictures in the paper glamorous or what? I feel sorry for the Police they are trying their best in a difficult situation. All these women have done is encouraged people to cause problems for the Police and gain publicity from it. The Press also should be ashamed for encouraging this in a time where hospitals are overwhelmed and it’s more important than ever that we follow the rules.

BlueSky

GrannyGravy
“The population of New Zealand is 4.886 million and it is 268,838 sq km. The population of the UK is 66 million and it is 243,610 sq km which makes the UK 90.62% the size of NZ.”
Exactly GrannyGravy I was going to say just that.

There's still no reason why people in the UK couldn't have a stricter lockdown. Some of the Chinese cities are much more densely populated than the UK.

Peasblossom local to us open: Thé Rangé, Pound Shop, Garden Centres, B&Q, just some examples. In my view, not necessary.

How can everything be open? All non essential shops and businesses like hairdressers are shut. (Three members of my family are in non essential retail)

Micro example of lockdown. The shopping precinct near my house was a ghost town during the first lockdown. This time it's life as normal. Everything is open. Tier 4 area.

We need to get the vaccine to people who have to work at the moment along with the care home staff, police, firemen and teachers, not the elderly who are in care homes or can stay at home.

GrannyGravy
“The population of New Zealand is 4.886 million and it is 268,838 sq km. The population of the UK is 66 million and it is 243,610 sq km which makes the UK 90.62% the size of NZ.”
Exactly GrannyGravy I was going to say just that.

I do agree the lockdowns here are too lax, especially this one. Far too many people coming and going as they please. I see all around me evidence of people ignoring the rules or is it guidance? I lose track but I do adhere to what I believe keeps me safe.

For the last 10 days China has consistently denied the WHO investigation team entry to the Country. Thereby denying them the opportunity to investigate the Covid-19 breeding ground in Huwan.

The population of New Zealand is 4.886 million and it is 268,838 sq km. The population of the UK is 66 million and it is 243,610 sq km which makes the UK 90.62% the size of NZ.

The two countries are non-comparable.

There are too many folks in the U.K. thinking that the little thing that they do, whether it be an extra walk, an extra trip to the shops or a quick coffee with a safe friend/relative is ok as it's just them. Unfortunately if you multiply that by thousands if not millions it is easy to see why our Covid-19 infections are as high as they are!

Dare I say the New Zealand attitude to life is a bit different. They take responsibility for themselves and their actions, they understand the difference between what they need to do and what they want, and they don’t keep whinging “but that’s not fair for meeeeee.”

I don’t for a minute believe the early Chinese figures tickingbird but their ability to get the pandemic under control cannot be denied. New Zealand has done a wonderful job by forcing people to quarantine under supervision. While that country continues to enjoy life as normal we are condemned to a cycle of ineffective lockdowns because they are not enforced.

I have no desire to follow anything which China does.

Also, in answer to the OP, I would not want to be locked down under China’s regime. Be careful what you wish for and be grateful for the freedoms you take for granted. Doubtless this government could have managed this pandemic better but if anyone believed the original figures that came out of China at the beginning, and how low they were, they’d be very gullible I’m afraid.

kittylester. If you feel it is unfair to compare the UK’s handling of the pandemic with China, how about New Zealand which I mentioned in my OP?

I'm with you all the way. Almost a year ago I remember watching how countries such as China dealt with the infection and feeling this was no ordinary virus. To be honest this is probably the old strain to.
I know it has been said that countries that have succeeded in controlling the virus have more experience of SARS or more compliant citizens.etc. There was an interesting article on how strict isolation is on entry to New Zealand. They try and make it as pleasant as possible but you are even told not to touch communal items.
How have we ended up where we are? A government that is arrogant? Stupid? Incompetent?
From the start they have got it wrong. They have failed to learn or act on lessons from the first wave.
A fair proportion of people seem outraged the rest would still elect them.
Cronyism is still rife with the contract for school laptops been given to a tory donor. I have no doubt that donations offered from companies would be cast aside.
Yesterday when the news was announced about grounding flights one of the officials in charge of airports commented it shouldn't go on for long. Whilst appreciating the impact on the industry I couldnt help but wonder what bit of global pandemic he didnt understand. This isnt being done for fun.
Throughout the pandemic Independent Sage and other scientists have calmly suggested what could be done and the implications if it wasnt. The government of course have ignored,delayed, U turned until we are in the position we are in now which is grim,very grim.
I think the government have decided the vaccine would save the day. Apparently if everyone who was vulnerable had already received the vaccine we would still be up the proverbial creek.
Yesterday for the first time since the pandemic was announced my stomach did a little flip of fear.
The vaccine on it's own is not enough. The more infections rage through the country the higher the chance of the virus mutating and becoming resistant.
If the government go against the grain and do effectively roll out the vaccine life is not going to change any time soon. The only vague good news is the Moderna vaccine being approached and being available in a few months. Apparently if we hadnt left the EU we would have it sooner.
I really dont know what it will take for this government to be held to account. It's often said what America does today the UK follows.
Arguably Johnson is a mini Trump. A populist PM who was in wrong place at wrong time. With both it has taken years of people being aghast at what they seem to get away with.
Trump has finally been recognized for what he is. What will it take for the same to happen to Johnson. How many more people will die,become seriously ill or suffer incredible financial or emotional hardship before we acknowledge what he is?

sodapop

Yes and we could make Witty, Hancock et al disappear without trace as well.

If a two week draconian proper lockdown worked, they could come out of it as heroes.

Iam64

I read about those two women in Derbyshire. They were very keen to get their photographs in the paper, holding the cardboard drink cups they'd bought to enjoy when they met. I wonder who notified the press and why? As David0205 says, the police are generally unlikely to over react. They have issued notices though, saying they plan to fine rather than warn people who drive a distance to a beauty spot, rather than staying closer to home.

That's my feeling too, but it does seem the story has resulted in Derbyshire Police reviewing its procedures. It's a storm in a (peppermint) tea cup.