Second vaccine dose timing

What Alegrias1 says, every time. Her posts are free and wonderful education in clear evidenced thinking. We’re lucky she is putting in her time!

The decision to star with those most affected was a purely clinical one. Any other priority criteria would be political and the JCVI has quite deliberately said it wants nothing to do with political decisions - and nor should it.

Alegrias thank you for your posts. I don’t know enough about the vaccine to make a fully informed comment, so I won’t.

One of the best things on GN is the information and help you can get from posters who might have experience of, or expertise in what you’re asking about.

One if the funniest/most irritating things is how posters can argue forever about anything and everything with or without direct experience.
The advice about the vaccine (from my knowledge based on what I’ve read here, seen in the news, or been told by the friend of a friend of my sister’s next door neighbour who is a consultant married to an IC nurse . . . ) is that the advice will continue to change as tests and monitoring continue. I just hope I get a jab soon.

This is a very straightforward matter and again this government is fudging the situation. The simple fact is that the Pfizer and Astra Zeneca jabs (not sure about Moderna) were approved on the basis of being given in two doses three weeks apart - that's the only evidence there is - it hasn't been approved for two doses further apart. So, as usual, the government has created a huge target (strains of testing and track and trace!) and the only way it can reach it is by this strategy. What must also be factored in is the sorry fact that the Pfizer manufacturing plant in Belgium is being closed for re-engineering so the supplies of vaccines will stop - no doubt about this - they will stop for around six weeks meaning that there won't be vaccines anyway to ensure people get their doses in the right timeframe. I have heard that there's a plan to mix and match vaccines - what utter nonsense - against there's been no trials of this approach, and neither vaccine has been approved on that basis. I look to the heavens in despair at the lack of brainpower possessed collectively by this government and those who still fail to see how completely cackhandedly they have managed the situation since half-term last February when returners from their ski-ing trips brought this back in their droves, and football matches and race meetings were allowed to go ahead.

Cs783

What Alegrias1 says, every time. Her posts are free and wonderful education in clear evidenced thinking. We’re lucky she is putting in her time!

I agree. I'm 100% with Alegrias1 on this and am very grateful for some reasoned, factual input.

I for one never expected the vaccine (of whichever source) to be some sort of cure-all. It will simply keep us out of and ICU and relieve the pressure on the NHS.

In that respect, it works like the flu vaccine, surely.

...keep us out of an ICU...

agree calendergirl, take advice from the people who know, petition is not necessary

Alegrias1

Thank you for all the common sense and back up references. I agree totally and have followed the progress of Covid-19 from the first report around December 2019. I have watched the changes in recommendation evolve and wish the Grans would remember how little evidence there was when the initial deisions were made.

The same problems are seen now: we cannot made educated decisions till AFTER the evidence (data) is collected. The delay makes sense to me on the evidence I have from the Oxford trial I am on, and the papers published & you referred to earlier.

sazz1 Your nurse friend seems to have odd timing from my experience but I hope she is feeling better soon. I haven't been unblinded yet!

Thank you Alegrias. I appreciate your frustrations but appreciate your scientific viewpoint even more.
Thank you for being a voice of informed reason in the midst of all the Chinese whispers.

I'm not a medical scientist, and I'm not a doctor, but I do think its important to point out misinformation and exaggeration where I see it. Everybody is free to believe what they like, of course, but I'm just posting what I see.

Sorry - I meant to say thank you for the kind words, everyone.

Just because it does not affect one person personally, does not mean it does not affect their parents, their family, friends, colleagues, etc.

If the larger gap results in giving time to the virus to become immune to the vax and mutate- it will affect all, no borders.

The WHO say The vaccine should be given 3 weeks apart.

1 dose primes the body to receive the second dose.

At least we are protecting the NHS.

There is still the possibility (scientific) that as the virus mutates, the vaccine will not cover new strains.

Quote from the Times yesterday 'Doctors have written to ministers expressing severe concerns about the coronavirus vaccine schedule, warning that patients are at risk if they do not receive a timely second dose.'
The fact that there's this level of concern should cause some cause concern at least.

I would just like to get the first dose.
My area is the second worst in England for the rollout for over 80s, and we have just heard that the next group. aged late 70s has been delayed further.
At least DH , aged over 80, managed to get his a few days ago

I am glad that so many people are happy with the decision to delay the second dose. I am not.

I might have had more confidence if the pandemic wasn't being handled by a government with a track record of messing things up. (I want to use a much stronger word but I am restraining myself.) Their decisions have resulted in the UK having the highest death rate per capita in the world.

Let's take it on the chin! No need to ban mass gatherings, off you go to the football and the races. Lock down? We won't do that... Well, better late than never. Close the schools? We certainly won't do that. Oh, turns out that kids do transmit the virus after all - who'd have thought? Close the borders? Test at airports? Maybe after we've let the virus run for a few months. What do you mean, Test, Test, Test? You're only the WHO, why should we do what you say? No, we don't need your app, we've got a world beating one of our own. Oh dear, seems that it doesn't work. Yes, of course it's okay to send hospital patients back into care homes without testing them first. No, we're happy to give jobs and contracts to people with absolutely no experience in these areas. What could possibly go wrong?

So forgive me if I don't have 100% confidence in our leaders and I pay some attention to the vaccine manufacturers, the BMJ, the preliminary information from the Israeli vaccine programme, and the fact that the rest of the world seems to disagree with the decision. They watched us with similar horror at the beginning of the virus, when the government was going for herd immunity instead of lock down, despite the advice of countries like Italy and France. One European newspaper nicknamed the UK "the control sample." The delay, before the government changed its strategy, cost thousands of lives.

Still, better luck next time, eh?

It's a doctor I know of who is very dubious about the 12-week gap after a first Pfizer vaccination, not an ill-informed follower of the company that manufactures the drug.

I do know someone (family member, can say no more, whether you believe me or not is up to you), who is 'high up' in the clinical trials of these vaccines.
He is concerned that the good results obtained were for the vaccines delivered at those time intervals.
Trial results weren't for longer delays between 1st and 2nd injections, though they COULD be even better.
Also the trials did not cover 1st dose one vaccine, 2nd dose of another vaccine, although results MIGHT be even better.

Thank goodness at last for some very well reasoned posts agreeing with what I’ve said, that nobody knows what will happen if the vaccine is given on a made up timetable to suit the government.

We in Canada do not have the luxury of getting the second dose in a timely manner as Pfizer have announced we will not be receiving ANY supplies at all next week and only 79,000 the following week!

This was a long thread to read and absorb. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Alegrias1 for her insightful (and reassuring) posts. You have settled my mind, both on the gap between jabs, the reasoning behind the rationale for the proposal and the reminder that the vaccine isn’t there to stop us getting covid per se, it is to mitigate the horrifying worst symptoms and save people becoming so ill that they would need hospital interventions.

A heartfelt thank you from me Alegrias1 for your time and patience.

I'm only 72, but have a large number of underlying health issues and since October have spent weeks in hospital/care homes, including Covid, possibly Long Covid. I'm carer for 3 disabled family members and my son with Aspergers has been forced to take over my caring roles. I feel aggrieved that I haven't yet been offered the vaccination; surely disabled carers over 70 should be treated as priority - My 88-year-old MIL has just been sent from hospital to a care home and she hasn't been vaccinated either. AIBU?

I believe that if anyone should get the second vaccination at the advised time it should be the health and social care workers as they have to continue working in high risk situations while quite possibly those of us who are lucky enough to have retired will find it easier to continue to avoid risks until we get the second dose

Too many experts on here.? I'll just listen to the medics and scientists.

Different timings for Different vaccines there should be a minimum gap of 4 weeks with the astrazeneca one any small protection with first injection even if only small is better than nothing no vaccine is ever 100% effective and people may have already been exposed to covid prior to vaccination so makes it look like they caught it after