Will the attitude of Vaccinated people be an 'I'm all right Jack' mentality as they seem to be increasingly booking holidays abroad. Do we need to prepare for a third wave?

Why does anyone STILL expect the vaccine to work instantly like a wave of the fairy godmother's wand? It takes time to get going, and it is only a few weeks since vaccinations started. We are told again and again the it takes time and we still have to take care

The first care home residents were vaccinated on about 14th December, and vaccinations were still going on in late January. It takes about 10 days for people to develop any immunity and 21 to have a reasonable level of protection. In older, more frail old people in care homes it could be a lot longer than that.

That makes 31 days or a whole month until the FIRST ones vaccinated would have reached reasonable immunity - at the best estimate. It is now only a week into February - so only those who were vaccinated at the start are fully protected, The rest are still developing the antibodies, and they could be slower at that than younger, more healthy people.

In any case, immunity won't be fully developed until after the second dose 12 weeks later.

This is why no-one should have been rushing to breathe all overv their granny as soon as her sleeve was rolled back down!

M0nica

I have searched online for any evidence for vaccinated older people still getting very ill with COVID and I can find nothing to substantiate that claim.

It must be remembered that the vaccine is not immediately effective. It takes 3 weeks to reach full immunity level and anyone already incubating the disease when they have the vaccination will still get the disease as if they have not had the vaccine, others will catch it while immunity is developing.

That's right. When I had my injection I was told it was a 3 week wait for some immunity to be established and I should keep to the rules about staying at home as much as possible. If I had to go out the nurse told me to still observe the guidelines until I had my 2nd booster injection. These injections are encouraging but they are not a Get out of Jail card.

Ooops sorry! Wrong thread. Ignore me.

I have searched online for any evidence for vaccinated older people still getting very ill with COVID and I can find nothing to substantiate that claim.

It must be remembered that the vaccine is not immediately effective. It takes 3 weeks to reach full immunity level and anyone already incubating the disease when they have the vaccination will still get the disease as if they have not had the vaccine, others will catch it while immunity is developing.

Blossoming

Callistemon I think Gagajo may be referring to an article in The Guardian from June 2020. I can see nothing more recent.

No, it was a video. I'll have a look and see if I can find it again.

Tour companies are desperately trying to get their businesses back on some sort of track. I believe Saga cruises state the anyone joining their cruises have to have had both vaccinations. International travel isn’t for us anyway, and you can’t lock the world down for months in the hope that it won’t re-emerge later on. I do think this virus is going to be around for many years in various forms and that the COVID jab will be as regular as the flu jab.

GagaJo

My daughter said that she had seen on the UK news that vaccinated elderly in the UK were still getting very ill with covid.

Anyone else see that?

GagaJo that’s very worrying and not what we need to encourage and reassure ‘the elderly ‘ (us? our parents?) that the vaccines are both safe and effective in preventing serious illness, otherwise many will wonder what’s the point.
As for booking holidays I think it’s far too early but that’s me, holidays no longer mean anything, but I realise that others will need something to look forward to.

Kalu Older people have always been the age group most likely to get COVID, get it seriously and to die from it. We have known that from very early on, and the papers are full of it almost every day. This is why older people have been the first group to receive the COVID vaccine

Even though treatments have improved and the numbers affected have dropped, the majority of those getting the virus and being severely ill and dying remains the over 60s.

The proportion of the elderly getting the disease and dying is not now proportionately higher than it was, so older people are not more in danger than before.

But this disease continues to be more serious the older you are. Hopefully as vaccination spreads, the number of COVID cases will fall among older people and if they still get the disease, it will be less serious.

I do know one or two who’ve booked holidays for rather later in the year, but only with cancellation insurance, so that if it’s not considered safe enough by then, they’ll get their money back. But we’re talking high summer/autumn, not April or May.

We haven’t booked anything, I don’t feel the need, but IMO some people do want something to look forward to, even if they know it might not happen.

We have a uk break planned which we booked last summer, for April, self catering in three separate cottages, for our family - children and grandchildren. I do not know if it will still go ahead. We could keep separate households and would gladly do so for the sake of a break for us all - there is a swimming pool, games room etc which would have to be used by separate families now, and acres of outside space to explore. We haven’t hugged since March and certainly don’t see the vaccine as a magic bullet to change that. Just to see them is enough. No holidays abroad again for me.

Kalu

Is this old news or fake news about the elderly still becoming very ill with covid? This is very worrying and I haven’t found any up to date news saying this is the case yet.

It is no surprise to me that there are reports of old people still getting ill with Covid.

Old people get ill - they always have, they always will.

Unfortunately we have a health service that is only concerned with one illness. Therefore it stands to reason that this illness MUST be the one that is making old people ill.

Is this old news or fake news about the elderly still becoming very ill with covid? This is very worrying and I haven’t found any up to date news saying this is the case yet.

My daughter said that she had seen on the UK news that vaccinated elderly in the UK were still getting very ill with covid.

That alarmed me somewhat so I've been searching the internet for further information. The last reference I can find was issued by the British Lung Foundation two days ago, advising that elderly people with severe lung conditions remain at risk even after vaccination. But that's hardly surprising. I can find no other reference on terrestrial or cable tv news channels.

Callistemon I think Gagajo may be referring to an article in The Guardian from June 2020. I can see nothing more recent.

This chart gives encouraging news on the efficacy of the different vaccines.

As Monica says, Covid will always be here, part of our lives now, and we have to save people's jobs, our children's futures, and everything that makes life worth living. Once the vulnerable have been vaccinated, we just have to get on with it.

Gagajo It might be this story that you daughter saw.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55891326

I’m not surprised with companies like EasyJet advertising ‘jab and go’, I think it was Ryanair Jaxjacky.
Are you surprised? Crass and stupid.
It was nothing to do with Easyjet (perhaps that should be made clear)

I think Ryanair are being investigated by the Watchdog.

I am more than happy to stay put in Scotland this year and be able to see family again, hopefully, around Easter or thereabouts.
Something which hasn’t been mentioned is, those who refuse to be vaccinated. Will they self isolate for the safety of others or be out and about when they see many more people doing so? At this point I have no idea of what percentage of the population will refuse the vaccine.

GagaJo

My daughter said that she had seen on the UK news that vaccinated elderly in the UK were still getting very ill with covid.

Anyone else see that?

No, do you have a link?

Elegran

The question in the title is "Do we need to prepare for a third wave?" and the answer is that whatever people are doing about holidays, yes, we should in any case be preparing for a third wave. Not to do so would be criminally negligent. It is better to be prepared for a wave that doesn't happen than to complacently assume that there won't be another.

Will we prepare any better than we did for the so-called second wave, I wonder. or will we once again be told that we have to "save the NHS" by not being ill.

As I think I have said before and got slated for doing so, it is a disgrace that we were not better prepared for a this winter's surge of what is now an endemic virus.

MOnica I'm with you

No one here would even think of going overseas just now, probably not until 2022 at the earliest. Lots of people are going locally but even interstate there is a risk because just 1 case triggers border closures. We don’t have the vaccine yet though. Usually there are heavy bookings for places like Bali, Fiji, Singapore, Japan but we know there are a lot of cases in Asia and the South Pacific and they are not always well reported.

Well, we have a second home in France, in Normandy just over the Channel from the UK. As soon as travel is permitted between the two countries we will go there.

We need to accept that COVID is never going to go away. Once the genie is out of the bottle, we are stuck with it, but medical authorities are saying that it will simply be another virus like flu.

There will be an annual jab, adapted for the current versions of the virus, over time treatments will be improved and there is no reason to think deaths will exceed the existing rate for flu, in fact deaths from one disease may fall, because the other gets there first.

We take risks with life daily, including getting all kinds of viral and bacterial infections. DH is currently recovering slowly from an infection picked up in hospital. it required 3 operations and six weeks in hospital to deal with it. That's life.

I have a trip to India, postponed from last year, rebooked for June but have no confidence that it will happen, though I would go if possible. I would also love to visit DS and DD, in USA and Thailand respectively but that is not going to happen either as regardless of our vaccination status neither country will currently let us in. We usually have at least one self catering holiday in the UK every year but finding one this summer will be distinctly challenging unless you've already booked something.

We have two holidays booked from last years transfers both uk or channel isles which if we have has a least one vaccination we will happily go ahead with
We went away last year in August in the uk and the hotel was superb at managing the restrictions
I must admit I would be happier hopefully that my daughter has had both as she is type 1 diabetic
Cant hide away indefinitely this virus is not going anywhere
No point in being vaccinated and still not going about a normal a life as reasonably possible