How should we deal with the groups who refuse to have the vaccine?

I just had a quick look, and Scotland is 91% of care home staff in older care homes vaccinated, and 79% in other care homes, so comparable to Wales. It may be an English issue, or it may be that the vaccination rate has improved in the last few days everywhere, let’s hope it is that.

Lies, damn lies and statistics, whoever said that was rightly cynical!

The use of statistics enlightens and gives us vital information about the best way forward

The abuse of statistics involves lies , damned lies and propaganda

FarNorth

"^we act as if our beliefs are true, whether or not they are^

If we believe certain things, it's because we think they are true, surely."

Yes. The point is that we may base our beliefs on thin air, with no concrete evidence to support them eg homeopathy, reflexology, microchips in vaccines, almond kernels treat/cure cancer. Some beliefs may be 'inherited' from significant people in one's life.

May be I've missed the point you were making, though?

There is a relatively new phenominum involving the distortion of the word "research".

In science research means collecting information, based on carefully controlled experiments then carefully analysing the results to come to a conclusion which is true and can be proven again by replicating the research.

Now, in the world of conspiracy theories the word "research" means googling some rubbish, then following links further and further down the rabbit hole of nonsense.

Millions of Americans have done this and if they are presented with actual facts and challenged they will tell you to "do your research".

We have even seen this madness on Gransnet.

Northernlass the point I was trying to make is that no-one has a belief that they know to be untrue.

They may have reason for their belief, eg that they had reflexology treatment and then their pains got better, or they may just 'know' it, eg belief in God.

When I was very young I might have believed in fairies and Santa Claus

Now I don't.

What do we have to do to disabuse believers in lies and dangerous conspiracy theories..?

varian

There is a relatively new phenominum involving the distortion of the word "research".

In science research means collecting information, based on carefully controlled experiments then carefully analysing the results to come to a conclusion which is true and can be proven again by replicating the research.

Now, in the world of conspiracy theories the word "research" means googling some rubbish, then following links further and further down the rabbit hole of nonsense.

Millions of Americans have done this and if they are presented with actual facts and challenged they will tell you to "do your research".

We have even seen this madness on Gransnet.

My comment about research was to look into systemic racism in the medical field.

Many here seem to disbelieve it.

I was not referring to your use of the word research *summerlove" but to the way the word now seems to be used by conspiracy theory followers.

varian

I was not referring to your use of the word research *summerlove" but to the way the word now seems to be used by conspiracy theory followers.

It does seem they have a script.

FarNorth
Many thanks for your reply. I understand what you mean.

I find it genuinely interesting why people believe the conspiracy theories about the coronavirus vaccine. Or why people don't trust the experts whose aim is to control the spread of virus - that they think they know better than those who've studied virology, immunology, general medicine etc.

That said, usually asking people "why?" results in justifications. Questionning has be more subtle.

I know the reasons may be complex but, I find, my patience is wearing thin on the issue. And I've found myself thinking that their reasoning powers are likely to be questionable.

My biggest problem is with care home staff who refuse to be vaccinated. They are dealing with the most vulnerable people on a daily basis who have already been through so much this past year being locked away from their loved ones.

Surely being vaccinated should be a condition of employment unless they have a good medical reason why it wouldn’t be advisable ?

I know a care home employee who refused a vaccination because she is trying to get pregnant.
I guess that could be a reason for some of them.

(Whether getting pregnant right now is a good idea, is another question.)

Northernlass given the untrustworthiness of the current government, I guess some people want to feel like they've got the inside scoop on what's really happening.

For myself, I don't believe anyone's trying to do anything awful to us with the vaccine, but I do believe that many politicians have used the pandemic for their own gain - to the detriment of public health.

JenniferEccles

My biggest problem is with care home staff who refuse to be vaccinated. They are dealing with the most vulnerable people on a daily basis who have already been through so much this past year being locked away from their loved ones.

Surely being vaccinated should be a condition of employment unless they have a good medical reason why it wouldn’t be advisable ?

or maybe ALL residents should be vaccinated not just those over 65. It seems ridiculous that all residents aren't vaccinated who live in a shared living type arrangement.

Thalidomide springs to mind, so I understand the fertility/ fear of abnormality argument. Nobody should be forced to vaccinate against their will, but vaccination passports may encourage people outside of these groups. However, I would hate to think that my granddaughter couldn’t get on a plane with us because she wanted to preserve her fertility!
Surely, when the majority of people have had the vaccine we will be the ones with less to fear?

Just before we start down the Thalidomide rabbit-hole....

Obviously (I'm sure we all know), Thalidomide was not a vaccine.

All residents in care homes are being vaccinated in this cohort I think JaneJudge, as they are classed as clinically vulnerable?

Casdon

All residents in care homes are being vaccinated in this cohort I think JaneJudge, as they are classed as clinically vulnerable?

I hope so Casdon, I can't help feeling those with learning disabilities are being overlooked again. But I am most probably just at the end of my tether !

Casdon

All residents in care homes are being vaccinated in this cohort I think JaneJudge, as they are classed as clinically vulnerable?

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as this

www.nursingtimes.net/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine-policy-for-people-with-learning-disabilities-unfair-26-01-2021/

Not spaghetti
You do t have to be so rude, I am allowed to have an opinion. And I also didn’t say thalidomide was a vaccine! But it was a medication - which had been approved as “safe”, that’s why some people might want to avoid the vaccine (which, by the way, is a medication)!

suziewoozie

Casdon

All residents in care homes are being vaccinated in this cohort I think JaneJudge, as they are classed as clinically vulnerable?

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as this

www.nursingtimes.net/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine-policy-for-people-with-learning-disabilities-unfair-26-01-2021/

it is worse than this as people with down syndrome still aren't receiving the vaccine and people with SLD/PMLD have been taken off the clinically vulnerable list today, despite being many more times likely to die from covid (and are they actually taking people with SLD/PMLD to hospital anyway?)

If any of you care enough, could you write to your MP please? There is some guidance here;

www.learningdisabilityengland.org.uk/news/stop-the-postcode-lottery-the-lives-of-all-people-with-learning-disabilities-have-equal-value/?fbclid=IwAR00WWbDNRUCCqZ0tK6puA8f_hWtxKrZ9t2-6X7W_XGy123Iu4AnErHI6O4

I was reading the JCVI guidance my daughter met THREE of the different criteria that put her into the CEV bracket, not just clinically vulnerable. We still cannot access a vaccine and neither can her peers.

JenniferEccles

My biggest problem is with care home staff who refuse to be vaccinated. They are dealing with the most vulnerable people on a daily basis who have already been through so much this past year being locked away from their loved ones.

Surely being vaccinated should be a condition of employment unless they have a good medical reason why it wouldn’t be advisable ?

I have only read about ten comments, including your original question/concern to your post. You have gone on for 13 pages for what you would like happen to these groups that don't want to get vaccinated. One person commented on the first or was it second page that you can't force someone to be vaccinated. Are you even reading anyone else's comments? You seem to think conspiracy theorist are nuts because they don't to be vaccinated. In your post above you write "care home staff who refuse to be vaccinated" and in your original question you mention that not even the nhs will take the vaccine. Could it be these "conspiracy theorists" are on to something?

JaneJ this is truly awful. I thought at least people with Downs Syndrome were receiving the vaccine ( there was a young woman in front of me in the queue when I went for mine) but I’m pretty sure she was with her mum and lived at home. Whatever, it’s clearly not good enough . Perhaps those of us who’ve been lucky enough to have had our vaccine could do as Jane asks and write to our MPs as a way of giving thanks anD showing solidarity? Many of us have time on our hands atm.

As pme demonstrates people seem to have plenty of time to moan and complain on here about those choosing not to get vaccinated - I wonder if those people have time to support those who want it and can’t access it ?