How should we deal with the groups who refuse to have the vaccine?

I agree absolutely Casdon it’s not unidimensional. However I’m uncomfortable with a narrative that focuses on ethnicity and excludes other factors. That ignores important differences within black and ethnic communities in attitude and reasons and also ignores vaccine hesitancy within white communities. We saw on GN recently a racist post ( that was deleted) which encouraged negative attitudes towards BAME communities because of their alleged widespread vaccine refusal and also another post which wrongly reported figures in a large city. I think some of the actions being taken by community leaders and politicians re encouraging take up is exactly the way to go.

Casdon: I imagine you're right about 1:1 relationships overriding the negative power of social media.

I'd logged out and back in again as I wanted to add that to aid another to examine their beliefs, one has to have good rapport/trust; so what you said is really apposite!

Northernlass

*Casdon*: I imagine you're right about 1:1 relationships overriding the negative power of social media.

I'd logged out and back in again as I wanted to add that to aid another to examine their beliefs, one has to have good rapport/trust; so what you said is really apposite!

Yes there’s lots of research on this in relation to other health initiatives such as cervical screening.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Not sure if it the very silly microchip story that is frightening off a lot of people. Think they are more concerned as to any potential side effects and have fallen for the stories about it being rushed through too quickly.

I dislike using the term BAME - seems tó mean , 'everuone except those like me'. It does cover such a vast number of people in so many different ethnic group. As someone who was born in UK, as were both my parents, as I come from Ashekanaze backgroung (Eastern European Jewish to many of you) I can be counted as BAME.

Most Black British people that I know are as enthusiastic to get one of these vaccines as I am.

I've known my best friend for forty years or so, and she is horrified her daughter also believes the 'microchipping' story. Her daughter is 39 and a mother of two children, I doubt she will allow them to be vaccinated either.

we act as if our beliefs are true, whether or not they are.

If we believe certain things, it's because we think they are true, surely.

"Social media" is being castigated a lot, for spreading false beliefs - yet social media is huge and contains links to numerous reputable sources of information.
A person's existing views will shape what they choose to look at and believe.

I totally believe that the vaccine is going to protect me. I don’t believe it will stop all risk of getting the virus but it should stop me dying or suffering too badly.
As I believe this will be true for everyone who has the injection then I will exert myself to make sure I don’t mix with people who have refused the vaccine if it is in my power to do so.
Not to protect me as much as them. If I have few, if any symptoms and am unaware I have the virus I don’t want to risk infecting them.
I can’t do much about people in the street, in shops and restaurants but I can avoid people that I know. ( I can’t think of anyone in my life who wouldn’t have it at the moment)
All the other vaccines I have had seem to have worked.
There will be those in society who have very valid reasons not to have the vaccine. I hope that enough of us will do the “right” thing to protect us all.
I have a feeling that those who don’t have the vaccine will find themselves lonelier than ever as they will have less confidence and opportunities to mix.

JenniferEccles

I am sure no one is saying that vaccination refusal is solely confined to certain ethnic groups, but figures do bear out the fact that they are more likely to refuse the vaccine than white people.

Isn’t it likely though that as the vaccination programme progresses over the coming weeks and months, a lot of people’s fears will be allayed once they learn that the vaccinated folk haven’t been microchipped after all ?!!

For many in theBAME community it’s not about something so silly as microchipping.

It’s about a medical system made and tested on the white population.

Your seeming refusal to believe in, and therefor mocking of, systemic racism is dangerous.

Please do proper research. It’s real. It’s not mockable.

Summerlove has research for the current vaccines only been on white people, despite awareness of the higher death rate in BAME people?

Summerlove its’s not the case that the vaccine was tested on the white population only? The Health Organisations that were involved in the vaccine testing (and many were) offered the opportunity to take part in the trials to all staff, and I know a number of BAME staff who took the opportunity.
I wonder if the data has been published in that level of detail?

When I see a comment like "do proper research" I go off and do it....

Demographics of the testing of Pfizer and Moderna attached. More or less within the parameters of the demographics of the population in the US. For Oxford vaccine, 10% of the trial participants in the UK were non-white, and 35% of the participants in Brazil. I know that they were trying to encourage more people of colour to take part in the Oxford one.

www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/racial-diversity-within-covid-19-vaccine-clinical-trials-key-questions-and-answers/

cherwell.org/2020/12/30/the-oxford-vaccine-how-generalisable-are-the-trial-results/

Thank you Alegrias, helpful to have the facts, as always.

Can you explain why the expression ‘People of colour’ is now accepted as being PC, am I wrong in saying that years ago it was disrespectful?

BlueSky

Can you explain why the expression ‘People of colour’ is now accepted as being PC, am I wrong in saying that years ago it was disrespectful?

I don’t think it was ‘people of colour’ that was unacceptable it just wasn’t used but ‘coloured people’ or ‘coloureds’. There are lots of negative historical connotations with the last two.

It was using the term 'coloured' which was seen as derogatory in the UK.

JenniferEccles

I am sure no one is saying that vaccination refusal is solely confined to certain ethnic groups, but figures do bear out the fact that they are more likely to refuse the vaccine than white people.

Isn’t it likely though that as the vaccination programme progresses over the coming weeks and months, a lot of people’s fears will be allayed once they learn that the vaccinated folk haven’t been microchipped after all ?!!

This post imo is mocking - making fun of the reasons why some BAME people may have vaccine hesitancy.

If people believe in the microchips idea, how would their fears be allayed in coming weeks & months?
Surely the whole point is that the recipients of vaccine wouldn't know they had been microchipped?

I think it needs to be personal choice - I personally see no need for the flu vaccine for ME but know of many that have it. I will have the covid if offered as I think the consequences could be worse. Whilst the effectiveness is not yet proven I think even a fifty percent reduction in cases is worth it. Give people time and they will come around when they see that there are no side effects.

I don't know about the rest of the UK, but in Scotland take-up of the vaccine has been greater than expected.

I never said for this particular vaccine

But the medical system in general.

Fears aren’t eased overnight.

One disturbing statistic is that take-up of vaccinations by care home staff is just 66% which is not regarded as adequate. Returning to the question raised in the title of this thread, should we be asking that for such occupations vaccination should be a condition of their employment?

(BBC Today programme 13/02/21. 1.40)

The uptake in Wales by carehome staff is at 84% (plus lag on data here so it will be higher) annodomini, I wouldn’t think it will be different in other parts of the UK, just that we are currently slightly ahead on the vaccination programme. I think there’s been a lot of press about it, but the low uptake is a myth - there are bound to be some objectors, but not as many as is publicised..

Sorry, Casdon, the authority I quite is Prof Anthony Harnden of Oxford University, deputy Chair of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation. He did say that in his local area (Oxford) the uptake by carehome staff was good, but that nationwide it was 66%. However, he didn't say which 'nation' he meant - it could be UK or any one of its constituent nations.

quite quote.
(my fingers are cold)