How should we deal with the groups who refuse to have the vaccine?

Some very good advice from the Marsh family

youtu.be/ZnbOKH9Oe9s

Panorama: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000scy8/panorama-vaccines-the-disinformation-war

The person who died of Corona virus lived in a residential home which had been completely locked down to protect their elderly guests. She was the only corona virus patient in the home.

Do you know for a fact that the person died of Covid Betty?

Yes the funeral was 2 weeks ago in Cornwall

Betty you said in your first post that you knew several people who had died of Covid a week after having their vaccinations.
The vaccines which are being used in this country don’t contain live virus particles.
So they couldn’t have contracted the virus from the vaccine.
And given the time scale you mention, they must have been infected before they got the vaccine.

If you want to learn about the science of vaccines can I suggest you google Dr John Campbell and watch some of his videos, or Prof Tim Spector on the Covid Symptom study app.

Betty - this is the sort of misinformation we have had for years with the flu vaccination. People say they become ill with influenza after receiving the injection. Yes, they may - but NOT from the vaccination. It is not live - but also takes about 14 days to become effective, so anyone who has contracted this illness either just before or just after the vaccinatiion would become ill.

So, with this vaccine (whichever one), we keep being told it takes about three weeks plus after the first dose for it to become effective. So, if someone is unfortunate enough to become ill with Covid19 a week after receiving their first jab, then would have become so whether or not they had that jab.

Do as your husband, - and get this vaccination - but do remember you need to continue to take care, lots of hand washing, and social distancing.

In fact, DrJohn had a blog last night that featured a man whose grandfather had died soon after having the vaccine. He went on to explain why the death wasn’t linked to the vaccine.

Not my time for the vax yet, so can’t say I've had it but to begin to answer the actual question in the post. I don’t think everyone refusing the vaccine is necessarily going along with conspiracy theories! (Despite it being portrayed that way by the main stream media). Some believe that they haven’t been trialled sufficiently(A normal trial would according to the info, last a number of years of follow up) Some believe that the ‘experts’ have no impartiality as they have shares, or influential positions within the companies who are manufacturing the vax, and so don’t trust their judgement. Some believe that we don’t know how this type of gene therapy works in the wider world environment. Some fear it may go the same way as the dengue fever vax years ago, where the technology was similar and over 600 children died, as they didn’t understand (despite trials) that if they’d already contracted dengue pre vax, and were in contact with it again, post vax, their symptoms would be massively more severe.(The vax was eventually re-issued on the proviso that the recipient had not had dengue before). I’m not arguing for or against vax...just putting forward some other perspectives. I’ve no doubt, a list could equally be compiled as to why it should be given. These things are often more complicated than they seem at first.

That's interesting about the dengue fever vax.
I hadn't heard of it.

Gingergirl The vaccination doesn't involve gene therapy, certainly not in the way I suspect you mean. There has been misinformation peddled about DNA being changed, which is a load of rubbish.

Sick of people going along with the conspiracy theories, the vaccines were trialled extensively. It's not DNA, they aren't putting a chip in you etcetera.

Some of the issue is that people simply don't have the foggiest how vaccine's work, are developed, derived etc. And why would we? Can't imagine many of us know swathes of biochemists and virologists etc or are educated in such areas. Consequently even when people are, it's incredibly hard to put these things into layman's terms and reassure people. Just trying to get the point across that vaccines don't act like drugs is like banging your head against a brick wall of fear and misunderstanding. Hardly surprising when some of the Science editors within the media are bloody clueless too. People can't even make a properly informed choice at the moment because so few people are able to comprehend what they are being told. That coupled with the lack of trust in the current government is bound to have resulted in some hesitation and worry. Who exactly do/can people trust these days?

For me, I read the published data, was happy with the trials and the results and felt the AZ vaccine that I was offered was a safe option. However, I do have a medical and research background and can at least understand and interpret a lot of the language. Not everyone has that advantage, so I do understand their misgivings - even though I wish they didn't have them.

There is also the issue of reading something the W.H.O have said, and then being told they aren't credible, or this/that expert isn't the right one to be taking notice of.
For the layman, it's a minefield.

Simply trying to answer the original question. I’m not claiming my comments are the truth.

It doesn’t help when I look on the internet and there’s an article from the Mail saying that thousands of people in America have suffered adverse reactions after having the vaccine. Beyond the actual headline it goes on to say how small a proportion of the people vaccinated it was and how very few of them could be regarded as serious. And even they appeared to be people that knew they might have a reaction.

Thank you ginger girl - fairly put.
Below is a very good report which I found. I would recommend people read it to understand the concerns of those of us who are not conspiracy theorists.
www.anhinternational.org/news/anh-feature-searching-for-answers-in-the-brave-new-world-of-covid-vaccines/

Betty65 I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you might not be aware that this article is published by an organisation that are anti-vaccine and are therefore, by definition, conspiracy theorists. In the article you linked to, I got as far as the section where they said the mRNA vaccines might change your DNA, then I stopped reading.

mediabiasfactcheck.com/alliance-for-natural-health-bias-junk-science/

Quote from the fact check: Overall, we rate the Alliance for Natural Health USA a Strong Conspiracy and Pseudoscience organization based on the promotion of anti-Vaccine propaganda as well as not aligning with the consensus of science on some issues such as GMOs.

Maybe instead of looking for sticks to beat people with because they wont take the vaccine, you need to incentivise them?

After all, why would any healthy working age person with a good immune system want to take an experimental vaccine when it wont give them normal life back. We will still have social distancing, masks, lockdowns in winter. These have all been said by the government already.

Why bother if life is staying as it is now?

Message deleted by Gransnet while we take a look into this. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

why would any healthy working age person with a good immune system want to take an experimental vaccine when it wont give them normal life back. We will still have social distancing, masks, lockdowns in winter. These have all been said by the government already.

Its not an experimental vaccine, no matter how often someone say that it doesn't make it true. Anyway, nearly 19 million people in this country alone have been vaccinated, how long do you want the "experiment" to last?

Life is going to change, maybe we will have masks in the winter but we'll have them a lot longer than that if vaccine take up is low.

It is an experimental vaccine. The trials have not been done. It is not being offered as a licenced vaccine but as one authorised under emergency powers ( which tells you it is experimental - it has not gone through all its testing stages and been found safe). The fact too that the pharma companies have been indemnified so no one can sue them for adverse reactions which are life changing or lead to death of loved ones tells you a lot.

I have no truck with anyone wanting to take such a vaccine but by definition it has to be a choice. We know the virus is only lethal in those with underlying conditions and all others have around a 99.8% chance of surviving and having no side effects from the virus itself ( not so with the vaccine).

how long do you want the "experiment" to last?

Clinical trials do not end until long term effects are added to the calculations. Normal trials would last until 2024

Like I said aprilrose, it doesn't matter how often you say it, it doesn't make it experimental. You are spreading misinformation about the vaccines which have been disproven many, many times.

I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just writing this so that anybody with vaccine hesitancy isn't influenced by your baseless implications that the vaccine is somehow unsafe.

Normal trials would last until 2024

By which time half a million more people will have died in the UK alone and all our businesses will have gone under. OK, let's try that then.