Can "anti-Vaxxers&q uot; explain?

Sorry Growstuff reading my post back the tone is a bit off, less intention, more not quite enough coffee before posting!

I just wanted to make it clear to everyone reading that other than making a joke once about monkey DNA I in no way think that, or endorse thinking that.

I wish we could fathom the reluctance re vaccines, then we could find a solution.

NellG

In relation to what growstuff posted, I wonder if the fact that the AZ vaccine uses monkey DNA is an issue? For some religions the concept of having animal 'products' (for the want of a better word) injected into them might be a complete taboo.

I have had the AZ vaccine. Perhaps that's why I am gorging bananas and scratching my armpits.

In some countries, children have to have the MMR vaccination before they are allowed to start school.

Summerlove

Influenza is not a coronavirus. Over a year later and people still have that misconception

The common cold is a coronavirus. This is why many people are skeptical of the vaccine, because we still have not come up with one for the common cold.

Colds are also caused by rhinoviruses. Apparently, there are at least 200 different viruses which cause colds, so it's really not surprising that a vaccine hasn't been developed, especially as each of the 200 is mutating all the time.

I only know one person who doesn’t want the vaccine - someone with a condition that makes him more vulnerable - but he lives alone and so has been very isolated for months on end, and presumably filling at least some of his time with plausible-sounding conspiracy stuff on the internet.

I say ‘plausible’ because he sent me a link to something - an man apparently in at least his late 60s looking and sounding for all the world like some eminent, very senior academic. Complete with tweedy jacket etc.

NellG Sorry if you thought I was criticising you in any way. I have no doubt you don't believe all the tosh.

This OP mentioned religion as one reason that people are anti-vaxx and I was just repeating a myth I've read about pork as a possible explanation.

Orthodox Jewish and some Muslim communities do tend to have lower vaccination rates than others. The Amish do too. There have been some serious measles outbreaks in these communities.

I'm not sure about Muslims but Orthodox Jews and Amish have little access to the media and the internet and if a myth of some sort is spread, there's little to counteract it. Traditional education doesn't include much science either. I'm not even sure Mendel and his peas feature.

I'm an atheist, but I do understand that a genuinely held religious belief is very difficult to challenge, in the same way that a belief in creationism or flat-earthism or even some political ideologies are.

Mokryna I believe you are not in the UK? Sadly in Europe they won’t give the Astra Zeneca to the over 65, therefore creating shortages.

As a 71 year old who will not have an injection before April because there is non in stock, could you please send it to me. I am not fussed. Thank you.

I saw a woman interviewed on TV who said she didn’t need the vaccine as ‘ the Lord’ would protect her - I can’t put on line what I shouted at the telly!!!

Influenza is not a coronavirus. Over a year later and people still have that misconception

The common cold is a coronavirus. This is why many people are skeptical of the vaccine, because we still have not come up with one for the common cold.

Galaxy

And to be honest I am almost as scared of those who say vaccines should be mandatory than I am of the anti vaxxers.

You and I both.

It’s only a hop from one thing being mandatory to us having less autonomy over our own bodies.

growstuff

NellG

Sorry to upset the applecart again but this is from the AZ leaflet,

How many people do you think have misunderstood that? It doesn't mean that the virus contains chimpanzee DNA nor that anybody's DNA will be altered in any way.

It was posted in response to the statement that scientists have repeatedly said there are no animal or plant products in any of the vaccines. I should have quoted the relevant post, which would have made my point clearer. I've already explained my use of monkey DNA, but for the sake of clarity will repeat it - I used that term not because I think it, but because people who are worried about the vaccine might, and some do, think it. Plus I wondered if the fact that the vaccine uses human cells might have lead to worries and concerns in those who have strong religious or moral beliefs about such things. In short I was answering the OP and correcting an erroneous belief that none of the vaccines contain organic matter.

I don't know how many have misunderstood it, but perhaps the two people that the OP mentions may have. I do know that a few people have expressed confusion and concern to me, and as they never got past Gregor Mendel and withered peas in O level biology, they struggle to understand what this might mean in terms of being inside their body. I explain it accurately and truthfully so that they can make informed choices. I don't tell them it contains monkey DNA, because it doesn't. I do tell them it's safe, because for the vast majority it is.

I also feel that vaccination should be mandatory. Every person who refuses the vaccine puts the rest of us at risk

How do they put you at risk. If you have taken the vaccine, you are no longer at risk. You are protected by the vaccine. If you get the virus it will be milder because of course this particular vaccine cannot stop anyone getting the virus. It is also unclear as to how far it reduces transmission rates and some evidence suggests that those taking the vaccine may themselves be a risk to others who may still be waiting for a call to get their vaccine.

As is so often the case these days, the majority suffers for the vocal minority

Really? It looks to me to be very much the other way round with those pro vaccine restricting the liberty and freedoms of others with their demands for vaccine passports, restrictions on where those who do not want a vaccine
( which may actually be based on medical advice in some instances) and mandatory vaccination regardless of creed or any other distinguishing factor.

Why would such a small number who refuse a vaccine be an issue anyway for those who are protected? In other vaccines it does not seem to be an issue. I know some who never had MMR or HPV for their children. No one demands mandatory vaccines there and the prevalence of those diseases is now at a minimum.

A virus like Covid cannot be totally eradicated anyway.

I worry about anyone who wants any medical intervention mandated in this way. It smacks of totalitarianism.

Pardon my ignorance, but is the cloven hoof associated with the devil?

I know several people who have refused the vaccine for various reasons. I also know at least three of them cited " Religious " reasons because religion is still a protected characteristic and cannot be challenged as a" reason".

Their reasons are very different and most revolve around concerns that the vaccine is experimental. It is not that they are " Anti Vaxx", its that they are currently anti this vaxx and are taking a wait and see approach. They want to see the results of the programme and any adverse effects on others , what they are and how prevalent they are , before making up their minds.

Maybe that will help the OP?

The COVID vaccine is not the first vaccine to be developed rapidly.

When Ebola struck West Africa, a vaccine was developed very quickly, not as quickly as COVID, but enough for it to have been used to control the epidemic at the time, and later recurrences of the disease in DRC and surrounding countries. I have not heard of any long-term effects. But, sadly, too many do not think more widely than the US and Europe when thinking about previous vaccines.

With COVID. although it was unknown to us until late 2019, it is part of a much wider class of viruses, known as Corona viruses about which a lot is known, both flu and the common cold are corona viruses and there was a huge amount of research into corona viruses in general and several in particular that could be drawn on, to give the search for a COVID vaccine a head start.

I think, all these claims and fears, that can easily be shown to be unfounded and allayed, if the person with them looks at a reputabe and reliable source like the NHS site, are really just a camoflage for deeper and more visceral fears about the speed of development in so many fields of endeavour that are hard to understand and the deep distrust of authority, whether, government, medical, technological, that alway grips peoples when they do not understand them. The 'They are all out to get us' feeling that often accompanies ignorance

The OP mentioned people who are anti-vaxx for religious reasons.

I suspect most anti Vaxxers are not religious at all but have other and varied reasons.

NellG

Sorry to upset the applecart again but this is from the AZ leaflet,

How many people do you think have misunderstood that? It doesn't mean that the virus contains chimpanzee DNA nor that anybody's DNA will be altered in any way.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

It’s unlikely that anyone would give their reasons for refusing or being sceptical about the vaccine on a thread such as this, where posters have already dismissed them as loopy loo, conspiracy theorists and putting ‘the rest of us’ at risk. Why on earth should they have to justify themselves when they have already been judged and dismissed as fools?

There are health workers who have suffered life changing illness and disability as a result of having the swine flu vaccine in 2009/ 2010. There have been large payments made in acknowledgement of this, and there are still ongoing claims. So maybe if we accept that those who refuse the vaccine should be at the back of the queue if they need medical treatment for Covid, we should accept that those few who incur vaccine damage should also be at the back of the queue for treatment or compensation as they have brought it on themselves.

And to be honest I am almost as scared of those who say vaccines should be mandatory than I am of the anti vaxxers.

Sorry to upset the applecart again but this is from the AZ leaflet,

On a lighter note. I was brought up a Methodist and we always had fish on Fridays.

There are many reasons why a perfectly sane person should decide not to have a vaccine.

They may be worried that it has not been properly tested because it has been developed so quickly.

They may be worried about side effects.

They may have had a bad experience with a vaccine in the past.

They may be unsure of what it contains.

Telling people that their fears are unfounded I'm afraid just doesn't work. At some point we have to trust the experts and the track record of both experts and politicians throughout this crisis is not good. The rationality of some of the decisions that have been made is questionable and that is why some of the public are wary of trusting the same people who told us we couldn't sit on a park bench when out for a walk and that a scotch egg constituted a substantial meal.

Frankly some of the things we have been hearing over the last year have been ludicrous. Is it any wonder that some people have doubts about the vaccine?

Once the programme has been rolled out and everyone who wants a vaccine has had two shots, there will be a lot more evidence that it is safe. Many of those who were cautious at first will become less so and will go on to have the vaccine.

If you believe the vaccine is safe and effective then you should also believe that in time the evidence that this is so will speak for itself.