Am I out of step with other pensioners?

I don't think she was self centred or insensitive, she has just written how she feels which is what everyone else is doing.

Rafichagran: well said. My AC would also be horrified at Bbbface comment because it was very insensitive and self centered.

I agree completely maddyone, I’m just struggling to see a way through this that would have supported them better. I think in the second lockdown some of the lessons of the first were learned so that access to school for those most in need was better, but it didn’t compensate for the loss of all the support systems. Hopefully some lessons will be learned and a greater level of support, including funding will be forthcoming, which may mitigate a few of the long term impacts.

I don't think I suggested children catch up, I said they adapt well if they are in stable households. I acknowledge that that aren't will struggle more short and long term. Those with additional stresses will need support long term too. I actually don't think I can bear to think about it My youngests school offered him pastoral support last week as he only went in 2 days and I spoke to him about it and he was adamant he was fine - so some of my responses are most probably denial

Bbbface I am glad my daughter who is around the ages of you and your friends does not think like you.
I am 63 and still working, so I dont know what you are talking about, no one has made sacrifices for me. I still make a contribution.
I can honestly say that I think you and your friends are in the minority. Most people of your age have a parent or parents and would be horrified by your statement.

Yes Monica, the vaccine roll out has been magnificent, and is a credit to the government. It’s definitely our way out of this pandemic.

I think some things could have been done differently Casdon, but I think that’s a different question. It’s the losses of children and young people that I’m thinking about now. And with children, even the most privileged lost a lot, but the least privileged, those I used to work with when I was teaching, many of them have suffered immeasurably. Some of these losses may well affect these children for all of their lives. A year is a massive amount of time in the life of a young child. Anyone who thinks ‘oh they soon adapt, catch up’ clearly doesn’t know anything about child development. Maybe it’s too uncomfortable a thought to actually think.

I think, all things considered, it would have been impossible to have a calm ordered response to a new virus only months old that was suddenly spreading world wide.

One or two smaller isolated countries, with relatively small populations and few or no huge conurbations, managed well. But i do not think there was one large populous country that did not make a dogs breakfast of it at first.

On balance, looking over the whole pandemic from start to finish (whenever that will be), I think we will be found to be among those countries, who despite periods of chaos and mistakes managed the whole thing reasonably well.

The management of the vaccine process, from original financial and other support for the vaccine researchers to the rolling out of the vaccination program has been a triumph.

I know Casdon, I just don't know what to say or judge or do. As a family we have made a lot of sacrifices ourselves in order to keep our adult daughter safe but I see other have made massive sacrifices too, it has all just been too horrible to contemplate. I think I try on a personal level to put a positive spin on things as they stand, as I know the human spirit is incredible. That's not to dismiss or minimise the reality of what was happening before or what is happening now or what will happen afterwards. It is honestly just awful. I went for my vaccine today and I am extremely grateful but I thought to myself if we'd have contemplated this, what is happening, people in masks, people keeping away from one another and not seeing people, not being normal, the worry, the worry for others, we just wouldn't be able to comprehend the enormity of it.

Casdon

maddyone what you think should have happened instead?

I understand perfectly that what happened, lockdown, had to happen Casdon, so no I do not think there was a different way. However, what I dislike intensely is the gross lack of either comprehension or empathy for the what our children and young people have suffered and lost. And the total denial from older people in my own age group and above, who think that what children and young people suffered and lost is fair enough, and fail to even acknowledge their extremely privileged position.

I think she’s right too, it has been awful. Children and young people and their families have suffered terribly, as have frontline workers who have kept services going through an awful time for the whole country. I think myself that’s it’s too simplistic to say older people could have stayed at home and avoided it though, as many have responsibilities which made that impossible, and even those who didn’t were reliant on other people putting their own lives at risk to support them. No answers, just more questions about what we could have done better.

maddyone comparing death rates is to completely misunderstand the disease. Anyone can get it. Serious and fatal cases are predominantly older people, but also younger people who are obese and have Types 2 diabetes and the majority of cases have been among younger people because there are more of them.

Older people such as us stayed at home and missed our friends and families. Otherwise life went on as usual for us. So all those in care homes do not count, or those that live at home dependant on carers and carers cannot visit because so many are off sick with COVID. Then there are the those many older people living alone and struggling to cope with the depression and other mental illnesses caused or exacerbated by isolation. Then there are all the extra people who have died from untreated cancers, or live in continuous pain not knowing when their hip replacement operation will take plce. It should have been in 2020 but now, 2022,23?

COVID, on average, has been pretty awful for everybody. In ecery age group, some are fortunate and come through well, others have suffered badly.

In situations like this comparisons are invidious.

do any of us know? I think maddyone is right in all honesty, it has been bloody crap hasn't it?

It was a genuine question grannylyn65, not a comment? The Government took the World Health Organisation advice, and I wondered if maddyone felt that wasn’t the right course, and what she felt should have happened instead, I don’t know the answer myself.

Really stupid comment

maddyone what you think should have happened instead?

We cannot pretend that children and young people have not suffered many losses. And some of those losses will have very long term and life changing repercussions. In particular, for young people, job opportunities. Selfishly pretending that children even did well in order to make us feel more comfortable will not do. The children of key workers did not see more of their parents (as someone suggested) the children of medics endured the stress that their parents brought home, children without recourse to a computer, or sharing a computer with several other children in the family did not do well, mothers suffering post natal depression did not do well as they struggled on alone, young people who lost their jobs did not do well, young people deprived of their tutors at university did not do well, and so it goes on and on and on. So many losses.
Older people such as us stayed at home and missed our friends and families. Otherwise life went on as usual for us.

.....some kind of rationing of care by age.......

Has someone suggested this?

My other children have been sibling carers all their lives and I was one too unfortunately but children do adapt better than adults to their circumstances if they are in stable households, I acknowledge there are children that aren't in stable households and hopefully they will be identified and that is why schools have to be open. Hopefully for most children though this is a short term thing, something their peers have been through too so they will all have each other. I am not saying it isn't damaging, as it will be, it will be for all age groups I imagine.

I have read in a number of places that the age of those being seriously affected and dying from covid are 20 years younger than in earlier waves. For instance in Germany, as reported here www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/europe-at-the-start-of-a-third-wave-of-covid-experts-warn?

This intent to whip up generational warfare helps no one. We are all in this together for sure. And NO ONE has considered the existing effect on medical staff of so many people dying and the implications for them if some kind of rationing of care by age were introduced. A pandemic is called such because it affects everyone, including the half a million or so of people of all ages, including children, who are suffering long covid.

I had Covid myself and was hospitalised for twelve days. I was seriously ill and it took me a long time to get back to relative normality. I still have some symptoms and Covid scarring on my lungs. I do not underestimate the threat of Covid, but I will not pretend that we were all protecting one another. We weren’t. The young were protecting us.

How anyone can say lockdown was to protect everyone I really don’t know. Look at the statistics of the Covid deaths. 80-90% of deaths were people who were over 80 years old. Then in decreasing numbers the ages of the victims get lower. That’s why the government are aiming to vaccinate all over 50s, starting with the oldest first. Of course it was to protect us, the oldest (I’m 67 by the way.) Anyone who says otherwise is sticking their head in the sand. It may not be very comforting to know that young people and children have paid for lockdown with loss, but it’s undeniable.

Incidentally it should be noted that I did say it had to be done, but let’s not pretend that what has been achieved is not at great cost to children and young people. They have paid for this in many different ways.

maddyone what you say about children, applies to older people as well. Would you like to be in a cre home suffering from dementia and confused and unhappy because your family have deserted you and left you all alone. (that is how someone like that will see it). Would you like to be the daughter or son of such a person, desperate to visit but only allowed to see at a a distance. Watching that person deteriorating and unable to do anything.

Think of those who died alone, with no one with them and their agonised partners and dear ones, knowing they were dying and unable to say good by. I heard of a grandmother, dying of cancer with a grandchild, now 9 months old that they may never get a chance to hug and kiss before death claims her.

I do not want to diminish the effects of COVID on children and young people, but COVID does not discriminate between age or health or effects. It affects absolutely every on.

Hard cases make bad examples, I know that, but even contemplating comparisons of who has suffered worse from COVID is pointless. Some children have suffered, others in the country or with big gardens and their own bedroom have actually done better than if they had been at school. Similarly older people. If you have a comfortable house and good health, the last year may have been boring but we haven't suffered.

COVID affects all of us one way or another

I thought it was to stop the NHS being overwhelmed ? If the numbers of pensioners being admitted had shot up any more it would mean chaos
Teachers were working hard to keep the children busy
My Grandchildren loved having more time with parents
It was the older people who really lost out in care homes , no visits no outings , they deteriorated at an unprecedented rate

Lots of justification for the losses children and young people have endured. Of course it had to be, we couldn’t let the virus rip through the community any more than it did, and it was indeed terrible, but let’s not fool ourselves that children have in some way benefitted, because they haven’t. Some have suffered terribly as a result of lockdown. Would you like to be locked in a small, high rise flat with a depressed mother and a violent father? Be truthful, children have lost and suffered as much as, and often more than us pensioners, who could understand the reason and who had few privations other than a loss of family/social life, and with support bubbles and childcare bubbles even that isn’t a definite. As for young people, deprived of education, jobs, social life, and life learning, I don’t know how anyone can say they have benefitted from lockdown. It may not be palatable, but young people and children have lost enormously through lockdown, and yes, it was to protect older people.