An interesting and thought provoking read for anyone with an open mind

janeainsworth Note, I only threw away about a square centimetre of biodegradable paper tissue - and I only did it once!

M0nica on the strength of your endorsement I’ve just poured myself another half-glass of wine
Cheers

MerylStreep

growstuff
Feel free to send the stasi round to me.
I support a neighbour with early onset Alzheimer’s. she often gets confused and tearful.
No more so than this week when her next door neighbour was sectioned for the second time in the past year. The police were sorting out this situation and clearly saw me hugging her.
I also hug my my friend who’s daughter is seriously ill.
I also hug another friend who’s wife ( my friend) will probably not come out of hospital.
So send them round. Although they might regret it because they’ll be confronted by a bloody angry old woman.?

No, I won't be sending the Stasi round, but did you tell Coronavirus you're exempt?

janeainsworth In your situation the effect of all the nudging emails would be to make me drink more, even if it were only a couple of teaspoons of wine.

We once drove along a motorway for about half an hour where every light board said something to the effect. 'be like other people, take your litter home' By the time I had read this message for about the 20the time, I got out a tissue, tore a tiny corner off it and dropped it out of the window, I had had my fill of being nagged endlessly not to drop litter. Not something I do, unless driven to it by a government nudge.

But thrn I always was contrary.

growstuff
Feel free to send the stasi round to me.
I support a neighbour with early onset Alzheimer’s. she often gets confused and tearful.
No more so than this week when her next door neighbour was sectioned for the second time in the past year. The police were sorting out this situation and clearly saw me hugging her.
I also hug my my friend who’s daughter is seriously ill.
I also hug another friend who’s wife ( my friend) will probably not come out of hospital.
So send them round. Although they might regret it because they’ll be confronted by a bloody angry old woman.?

Grumpy alert. Why do people only talk about hugging their grandchildren? I’d give anything to hug my son. Not seen since December 2018, in Sydney

It’s not illegal to hug anyone, but the guidelines suggest people should not hug, but should socially distance. It’s illegal to meet or socialise with more than the relevant number of people at any particular time. Today it’s only two people who may meet outdoors, I believe that changes to six on Monday (29th March.) Social distancing (no hugs) is recommended in the guidelines.

You weren’t allowed to hug anyone during our lockdown here and they did police it . Have to say it worked and we are Covid free at least until the next plane loads from overseas arrive and spread it. They were very strict about it and most of us agreed it was the only way forward. Lots of ads and announcements and constant urges not to be selfish , every single day. It became a peer group pressure thing and though it sounds dreadful it was very effective indeed.

If that's directed at me Eloethan, I don't see why people should be excused from doing something which would be illegal, if the people involved weren't related. The virus doesn't know how people are related to each other and I believe there are certain exemptions anyway. I'm just fed up with the constant excuses people come up with.

My goodness - what is the world coming to!

MissChateline

growstuff

I don't know if anybody has been fined for hugging their own child or grandchild if they're not in a bubble. I hope so.

I do hope you are not being serious?

Sorry to disappoint. I was being deadly serious.

Eloethan yes I agree it’s different, I just meant that psychological manipulation isn’t all bad. The NHS have been using ‘nudge’ psychology on me for months because they think my modest glass or two of wine every evening exceeds what they think is good for me, by sending me jolly little emails with hints and tips about safe drinking. No doubt they are sending them to others too.

But seriously, the fact that we are (mainly) still a free country means that we are free to assess the government’s advice/fear-mongering/propaganda, call it what you will, for ourselves by accessing information from alternative sources such as the Covid symptom study app, Dr John Campbell, or MD in Private Eye, and make decisions for ourselves.
I suppose an interesting question to ask oneself would be, ‘had the government not imposed any restrictions, would I have done anything differently over the last year?’
I think largely my behaviour would have been the same.

PippaZ I think perhaps you are referring to someone else when you say you echo was I said.

It was the OP who described the article as "an interesting and thought-provoking read for anyone with an open mind". I actually agree with her that it was a very interesting article which did raise what I believe are justifiable concerns re the use of "nudge" psychology.

janea Individuals who want to try and rid themselves of a particular addiction or addictions, or who have, for a variety of reasons, developed negative self-images or frightening thoughts can seek advice and make a choice as to which therapy might be useful to them. That is surely different from the state using psychological messaging to impose conformity by means of heightening fear or encouraging the "othering" of people who are not compliant.

growstuff

I don't know if anybody has been fined for hugging their own child or grandchild if they're not in a bubble. I hope so.

I do hope you are not being serious?

I can only echo what Eloethan said. Statements such as "An interesting and thought provoking read for anyone with an open mind" tell us straight away that what the author actually means is "anyone who agrees with me".

Eloethan In my view, psychological methods of manipulating people are wrong

You could argue that the use of cognitive behavioural therapy or neurolinguistic programming are psychological methods of manipulating people, with the aim of ridding them of phobias or damaging self-beliefs. Are they wrong?

I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that you agree with the writer of the article. How do you think the government should have conveyed the information about Covid-19 in such a way that people would have complied with advice and ensured that the NHS wasn't completely overwhelmed?

In my view, psychological methods of manipulating people are wrong. I am aware that they are used all the time in commercial advertising campaigns and I think that is very wrong too.

I think we need to be very careful about endorsing and entrenching what is basically underhand methods used to manipulate public consciousness and opinion - however much you may agree with the hoped-for outcome.

The only "covert strategies", I suspect, are those being used by the writer of this article. The word "covert" is being used to scare me into thinking a group of nameless people are plotting to get me somehow!
Any messages sent out by the Government came over loud and clear and thank goodness they did.

I don't know if anybody has been fined for hugging their own child or grandchild if they're not in a bubble. I hope so.

MissChateline

I’m all in favour of ID cards as it would be a requirement for everyone to carry one. However not every one will get vaccinated and that is their choice. Pregnant women won’t be for instance, should they be barred from entering shops, venues or going out for lunch to a pub?

I too am totally outraged at the gradual erosion of our freedoms and increased surveillance which has been happening for several years. However I was aiming to keep my part in the discussion COVID orientated.

I think that the most ridiculous and unenforceable “rule” recently was the order that we can’t “mingle” should we bump not a friend in the street. Do we just ignore them! And please don’t get me started on the illegality of hugging ones own child or grandchild. Has anyone actually been fined for this?

Why are the COVID emergency powers being renewed for a further 6 months well after the current restrictions are due to end. Please don’t tell me that you are ok with this.

It's their choice not to be vaccinated, so their choice not go anywhere which requires a "vaccine passport" (unless they are in a group which genuinely can't be vaccinated such as the pregnant).

If they don't like it , tough luck!

Coronavirus Act: Lib Dem leader, Sir Ed Davey, refuses to back renewal of the legislation

Sir Ed Davey says claims by ministers that the pandemic powers need a further Commons vote to secure furlough scheme are ‘false’

inews.co.uk/news/politics/coronavirus-act-lib-dem-leader-sir-ed-davey-refuses-to-back-renewal-of-the-legislation-927035

I just don’t understand why everything has to be a conspiracy!
This is a pandemic, we have no option but to rely on our democratically elected government to do the best for us in these circumstances. I completely agree with Monica having undergone a lot of vaccinations for a lot of travel. Travel which
I can tell you opened my eyes to a great deal of what goes on in the rest of the world.........and I know which government to trust, not necessarily agree with about much ?

I’m all in favour of ID cards as it would be a requirement for everyone to carry one. However not every one will get vaccinated and that is their choice. Pregnant women won’t be for instance, should they be barred from entering shops, venues or going out for lunch to a pub?

I too am totally outraged at the gradual erosion of our freedoms and increased surveillance which has been happening for several years. However I was aiming to keep my part in the discussion COVID orientated.

I think that the most ridiculous and unenforceable “rule” recently was the order that we can’t “mingle” should we bump not a friend in the street. Do we just ignore them! And please don’t get me started on the illegality of hugging ones own child or grandchild. Has anyone actually been fined for this?

Why are the COVID emergency powers being renewed for a further 6 months well after the current restrictions are due to end. Please don’t tell me that you are ok with this.

MissChateline

grow stuff;

1. Of course I am outraged.

2. Are you not afraid of the continual erosion of our rights? Of the ever increasing surveillance? Of the fact that we may soon become a 2 tier society when we have to show a “freedom pass” to access facilities.

I am not outraged at the government's so-called restricting of freedoms to protect people from Covid.

I am outraged at the gradual erosion of freedoms which have been happening over the last couple of years, which don't even seem to be on your radar.

I don't think you can see the irony of asking me if I'm afraid. No, I'm not afraid of having to show a "freedom pass", if such a thing is introduced. As the UK can't get its act together to introduce ID cards, I have my doubts whether there will ever be a "freedom pass".

In my childhood and when DH started his career we both did a lot of international travel to the Far East, Europe and Africa.

To make thse journeys we had to have all sorts of vaccinations, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, typhus. You name it we had them and we had vaccination certificates in our passports which we had to show at the immigration desk on arriving in our county of destination. DH once had to have an HIV/AIDS test to go to Saudi Arabia.

How does this current plan of COVID passports differ from that? How often do we need to produce a car licence or passport to prove details about ourselves?

Silly alarmist talk is as silly as this article. Some people have always been willing to snitch on each other, whether they are telling the truth or imagining it.

There has been no substantial change in how society behaves in the last year. Just more opportunity to look at it in detail.