An interesting and thought provoking read for anyone with an open mind

A very interesting, thought-provoking read. Thank you.

Yeah! Yeah! So what do such people suggest? Should we have been allowed the freedom to let over half a million people die?I bet they're in the "I'm alright Jack" category.

How difficult is it to understand concepts such as society and public health?

Sorry but once I saw the spelling error in the headline I didn’t feel like taking it seriously .

Agree with growstuff

Someone I know has a shop and a customer walked in without a mask saying she didn’t “do”Covid and said she’d left her boyfriend because he was having the vaccine. She was asked to leave

I'm not sure I really agree with it, tbh. We are all aware that emotional manipulation is used by advertisers to persuade us to buy stuff - it doesn't seem outrageous because we're used to it.

So why is it worse if our government uses the same tactics they used to get us to vote for them in the first place, to persuade us to take actions which could protect us and people around us?

A friend of my GD has literally been harassed by the police. The woman owns a florist shop and has been inundated for flowers for funerals etc and was working between her shop and home to get orders out and each time the police have been to both properties about her working. She was then served with a £10,000 fine which presently she's appealing against.

Meanwhile, in the same area 2 pensioners had money/ purses stolen from them as they were asked by yobs to spare a few pence for a "cup of tea ". Not to my knowledge were they apprehended ! Something's wrong somewhere.

Sorry but once I saw the spelling error in the headline I didn’t feel like taking it seriously

I can't take seriously any rag associated with Toby Young.

I think it's very interesting. What has really amazed me all this time is how people have gone along with all the madness!! Who would have ever believed we would have let the government tell us how many people we can have in our own homes! Or that you wouldn't see your lonely old mother for a whole year!

Well it's a point of view, just not mine! I also had a smile at "pedalled". It's a bit naive to imagine that Govt messages during a pandemic won't be designed to encourage the general public to comply with instructions. It has ever been thus!

Right from the start of all this last March I have been appalled at the constant drip drip of the fear factor being pushed out to terrify us to comply with ever more draconian rules. Every day on the news we have been confronted by wailing ambulances, scenes of ICU as well as the intrusive interviews with distressed survivors.

I have been gobsmacked by the unquestioning compliance of the population to roll over and comply with every new bit of regulation. Many of these rules made no sense, eg a group of 10 can go out and shoot birds but 2 mums and toddlers can not feed the ducks in the park without the prospect of being fined. I still find it difficult to comprehend that people have accepted the rule that they are not allowed to touch their children or grandchildren and unquestioningly comply. Likewise being told who and how many people we can have in our own property or talk to in the street.

People are dying of loneliness and fear. People are not seeking essential treatment and are dying of treatable illnesses. People are terrified for the future and suicide are increasing. Food banks are an essential lifeline for many.

I worry about the future of evermore rules and regulations being passed down on us and we don’t question them and how society is changing for the worse. I despair that neighbours are willing and proud to “snitch” on each other for minor transgressions and how our language is changing. I fear that we may never regain many of the freedoms we previously enjoyed.

Of course our psychology is open to manipulation always has been.

And we are supposed to be affected How by this information ?

Or are we supposed to be psychologically manipulated into an emotional, emotive response?

So the Government have a team to do these things, yep I'd be surprised if they didn't

I accept not everyone is aware of the manipulation when it's happening, I know I'm not and I studies some of this stuff, and sometimes even when we do see it we either accept it, ignore it or reject it.

There is nothing new in this. There are plenty of well know historical examples the WW1 "Kitchener recruiting Poster "Your Country Needs You" later ones WW11 "Loose Lips Sink Ships", "Dig for Victory" and so on used all the same emotional tactic how else does anyone herd cats ?

Is there are parent on GN that hasn't use these tactics without out a debate or consent?

I have, if you - go to bed and get to sleep Christmas, your birthday, Nana's visit etc will get here soon or you'll enjoy it more if you're not tired.

Why did I do these things ? Lots of reasons but mainly to get compliance with less resistance, get homework done, bedrooms tidied the list goes on.

Or in this case a Government trying to work out ways through the unfolding Pandemic.

However, I do agree with the writer in that I'd like to see more of these strategies being in other areas or may be they are being applied.

Everything in this article is very old hat and there have been articles of this type around for years. He is not saying anything libertarian, dramatic, new, or anything else.

David Cameron was always talking about 'nudge' pschycology and the office that adviced him on its use. Whenever it is used it is always used so clumsy and isso blatant that it shouts out 'look at me, I am a nudge' - and that includes all the campaigns run over the past year.

I cannot believe that many people take them very seriously. DH and I treat these adverts, when we see them as jokes,'Oh look they are trying to frighten us again. Although from the extreme reactions of some posters on GN, it clearly works on some.

This last year I have had quite enough to frighten me trying to support my daughter through a critical illness, caused by her GPs failure to order a full set of tests and then DH's heart attack, bypass surgery and hospital acquired infection (not COVID) to respond to any of the governments silly games and Readers Digest grasp of motivation.

I think the government were terrified there would be a huge number of dead and dying in NHS hospitals, far more than we could cope with. If the numbers went through the roof then there would be people lying on the floor or in the street etc. That is always what it has been about. They used the fear tactic purely to stop the spread of the virus and keep the numbers down. I'm sure none of us would want the numbers of dead to be four times what it is.

I'm sure none of us would want the numbers of dead to be four times what it is
I agree Chestnut and I’m sure that the fear we felt at the sight of Italy’s hospitals being overwhelmed this time last year wasn’t a result of being psychologically manipulated by the government, but by factual reporting on the MSM and the knowledge that if that could happen in Italy, a country with a modern, first-class healthcare system, it could happen here too.

Gary Sidley seems to think the government should have simply presented the public with factual data and let the public work out the risks and an action plan all by themselves. Well good luck with that.

Sidley is a retired clinical psychologist and a member of HART, the Health Advisory and Recovery Team.
This is from their mission statement:
Our core aim is to find the common ground between the Government and groups that are concerned about COVID-19 restrictions

Not difficult to see where he’s coming from.

Ohhhh dear ! Just that?

Toby Young stole his status and career. And in every sinew of his body, he knows that. For most people, imposter syndrome is an irrational insecurity; Toby Young should feel that way. He was an imposter at Oxford, he was an imposter in journalism, an imposter in New York, an imposter in education, and most recently has set himself up as the boss of an imposter ‘Union’, acting as if anyone can genuinely call themselves General Secretary.

brokenbottleboy.substack.com/p/ladies-and-gentlemen-hes-floating

You don't need an open mind, just an empty space between the ears to be persuaded of anything by Toby Young.

Exerpt: "State scientists deploying fear, shame and scapegoating to change minds is an ethically dubious practice that in some respects resembles the tactics used by totalitarian regimes such as China, where the state inflicts pain on a subset of its population in an attempt to eliminate beliefs and behaviour they perceive to be deviant."

What is the ethic that defines "no rulers should influence those who are ruled over" ? Rulers always do this without exception.

There is a vast relative ethical distance between Xi Jinping on the one hand and Vera Lynn on the other and yet they are both deliberate influencers. Intention of the ruler is key to the ethical quality of the intended influence

MissChateline As you're so concerned about citizens' rights, I assume you object to Patel's Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill, are outraged that international conventions are being broken by taking away asylum seekers' rights and all the other rights which have slowly been eroded by this government.

*MissChateline: People are dying of loneliness and fear. People are not seeking essential treatment and are dying of treatable illnesses. People are terrified for the future and suicide are increasing. Food banks are an essential lifeline for many.

I worry about the future of evermore rules and regulations being passed down on us and we don’t question them and how society is changing for the worse. I despair that neighbours are willing and proud to “snitch” on each other for minor transgressions and how our language is changing. I fear that we may never regain many of the freedoms we previously enjoyed.*

So now who's trying to fearmonger?

grow stuff;

1. Of course I am outraged.

2. Are you not afraid of the continual erosion of our rights? Of the ever increasing surveillance? Of the fact that we may soon become a 2 tier society when we have to show a “freedom pass” to access facilities.

In my childhood and when DH started his career we both did a lot of international travel to the Far East, Europe and Africa.

To make thse journeys we had to have all sorts of vaccinations, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, typhus. You name it we had them and we had vaccination certificates in our passports which we had to show at the immigration desk on arriving in our county of destination. DH once had to have an HIV/AIDS test to go to Saudi Arabia.

How does this current plan of COVID passports differ from that? How often do we need to produce a car licence or passport to prove details about ourselves?

Silly alarmist talk is as silly as this article. Some people have always been willing to snitch on each other, whether they are telling the truth or imagining it.

There has been no substantial change in how society behaves in the last year. Just more opportunity to look at it in detail.

MissChateline

grow stuff;

1. Of course I am outraged.

2. Are you not afraid of the continual erosion of our rights? Of the ever increasing surveillance? Of the fact that we may soon become a 2 tier society when we have to show a “freedom pass” to access facilities.

I am not outraged at the government's so-called restricting of freedoms to protect people from Covid.

I am outraged at the gradual erosion of freedoms which have been happening over the last couple of years, which don't even seem to be on your radar.

I don't think you can see the irony of asking me if I'm afraid. No, I'm not afraid of having to show a "freedom pass", if such a thing is introduced. As the UK can't get its act together to introduce ID cards, I have my doubts whether there will ever be a "freedom pass".

I’m all in favour of ID cards as it would be a requirement for everyone to carry one. However not every one will get vaccinated and that is their choice. Pregnant women won’t be for instance, should they be barred from entering shops, venues or going out for lunch to a pub?

I too am totally outraged at the gradual erosion of our freedoms and increased surveillance which has been happening for several years. However I was aiming to keep my part in the discussion COVID orientated.

I think that the most ridiculous and unenforceable “rule” recently was the order that we can’t “mingle” should we bump not a friend in the street. Do we just ignore them! And please don’t get me started on the illegality of hugging ones own child or grandchild. Has anyone actually been fined for this?

Why are the COVID emergency powers being renewed for a further 6 months well after the current restrictions are due to end. Please don’t tell me that you are ok with this.