Astra Zeneca Vaccine

The contraceptive pill causes more clot problems than anything but it's still taken.
Flying can cause a DVT but it doesn't stop people.

I’m not sure how you electrocute yourself in a bath, but you appear to be confusing ‘blame’ and ‘risk’.

Yep probably Pippa, it's all getting rather tiresome!
Second AZ jab for me in June no problem.

I think you've missed the point Ellianne.

I didn’t have the AZ vaccine, I had the Pfizer, but I would very happily have had it, and would be 100% happy to have the second dose. I realise that it could be thought it’s easy to say that when I didn’t have it, but quite seriously that’s what I think. I’m also quite happy that my children have had the AZ vaccine and am hoping they’ll get the second one. I’ll be very pleased when my third adult child, as yet unvaccinated, gets his vaccine, and I’m not worried if he gets AstraZeneca.

Oops, but having the vaccine might somehow seem less appealing than risking a bath because it's kind of not my fault if things go wrong and I die.

I’m mentioning Europe because I have friends there and I’ve chats with them daily about the vaccines. Actually at this stage I feel the new threshold for the AZ is too low. Nothing to do with nationalism by the way Summerlove!

If I drown in the bath that's my own fault for falling asleep, electrocuting myself, committing suicide, burning myself.

I like the attitude of the woman who lost her brother on Easter Sunday after the AZ vaccination, who then went on to say---he was unlucky ! He was 59.
Talk about Russian Roullette.

BlueSky

Of course Suzie good decision when you think in Europe the AZ is now advised for the over 55-60-65 only!

But it’s not just the other European countries recommending this. It’s others as well.

I think far too many people are taking it personally that it’s a UK vaccine that happens to have issues. I think that kind of blind nationalism has blinkered a lot of people. I am betting they wouldn’t have the same reaction if it were a different vaccine that were created elsewhere.

Risk assessment is one of my things, I used to do it regularly as a Project Manager. I find it such an interesting topic and most people have no idea how to judge risk, generally. I've mentioned him before but Prof Spiegelhalter is very good at this.

twitter.com/d_spiegel

suziewoozie

Thanks Pippa. I think all this is quite fascinating as to how we approach decision making taking into account the risks and benefits and how best risk can be communicated.

Isn't it

Thanks Pippa. I think all this is quite fascinating as to how we approach decision making taking into account the risks and benefits and how best risk can be communicated.

I can't I'm afraid I'm afraid suziewoozie I think it was on Sky News but I was also listening to some interviews earlier on on the radio and in between I was looking up Basset Hound Machine Embroidery and talking to the people who service my gas boiler.

I think it was more an order of magnitude thing. I.e., people do drown in the bath, we know people drown in the bath but because we have had time to get some sense of how rare it is we go on having baths. The magnitude of this was comparable. People do die of the rare bloodclot but it is so rare we should not stop having the vaccination.

I'm sure you will be able to find something if you look it up.

I can’t believe the bath statistic - can you remember who gave it and what it was please?

suziewoozie

I understand what you mean Ellianne. However, some risks we take have no alternative and other risks are easily avoided. This applies to decisions about medical treatment and behaviour in many other areas of life. The very best thing is when an alternative is available which has ( as far as is known) a lower risk or ( depending on the issue in question) a higher benefit. I don’t know what I’d be thinking today if I were 31.

I think they were making it more clear this morning that the 30-year-olds cut off was very carefully chosen and it was certainly not because the under 30s were more likely to get this very rare and unusual clot. It was more because, in weighing up the risks, the factor that changed things was that the under 30s were less likely to be hospitalised or die so that, on balance, made have the AZ jab risk very slightly less acceptable.

We still need the under 30s to be vaccinated so they are going to use the other vaccines but that is more about unvaccinated 30-year-olds and their risk to older people and the risk they could get long covid which could well be our next big challenge.

It's very complex

Ellianne

Thank you sw.
I think statistics for "ordinary" people (like me!) often mean very little until they are put into perspective, and that is a problem. Saying blood clots occur in 1 in whatever is maybe difficult for many to picture, how does one know if that is particularly rare or not?
But when the risk of a blood clot is equated to getting in the car to go on a 250 mile journey, then the penny starts to drop that this us a very very rare occurrence. A few more comparisons along those lines might help?

I liked the comparison that they used saying you were about as likely to drown taking a bath as get this very rare blood clot. I doubt people will stop taking a bath as we have had a lifetime to understand just how unlikely drowning is.

I agree with you Maybee.

I just read that 50% of people with a high infection rates are asymptomatic. Under thirties will constantly be virus spreaders if they don’t have a vaccine. We’ll never be rid of this virus.

suziewoozie

But what’s wrong with giving under 30s a different vaccine? The balance of risk for them tilts towards that as an ‘abundance of caution’. We’ve got alternatives - I don’t understand why the decision is being criticised.

I totally agree with this.

As my daughter, a doctor, said to me, the problem is that for under 30s there really isn’t a risk of death from Covid providing the young person has absolutely no comorbidites such as being overweight, or any other health problems. Therefore some under 30s may feel that the minuscule risk of a blood clot is a bigger risk to themselves than dying from Covid. I can see her argument, but I don’t agree with her really. She says she can see why younger people might refuse the vaccine whilst I find it difficult to see that.

The answer as I see it is what is going to be done, offer only the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine to the under thirties.

Given that headaches are quite common when someone has been vaccinated I think the NHS will be inundated with phone calls over the next few weeks.

I agree suziewoozie and I’m not sure how I would weigh up the risk at that age. The other thing I would perhaps take into consideration would be the protective effect of me having the vacc on older/vulnerable others close to me.

Thank you Mamie. I know the EMA has not set an age limit but I know different countries have set their own, approx from 55 up. The UK seems rather low in comparison. Like Suzie I’m glad I’m not 31.

I understand what you mean Ellianne. However, some risks we take have no alternative and other risks are easily avoided. This applies to decisions about medical treatment and behaviour in many other areas of life. The very best thing is when an alternative is available which has ( as far as is known) a lower risk or ( depending on the issue in question) a higher benefit. I don’t know what I’d be thinking today if I were 31.

Thank you sw.
I think statistics for "ordinary" people (like me!) often mean very little until they are put into perspective, and that is a problem. Saying blood clots occur in 1 in whatever is maybe difficult for many to picture, how does one know if that is particularly rare or not?
But when the risk of a blood clot is equated to getting in the car to go on a 250 mile journey, then the penny starts to drop that this us a very very rare occurrence. A few more comparisons along those lines might help?