Indian variant - Is anyone else incredulous at Boris yet again having shut the stable door after the horse has bolted?!

What a gross generalisation MayBee70, our pub will have approx 70% of customers with one vaccination and at a guess 30% -45% with two. You sanitise, walk in, sign in, with a mask on, sit at a table, place your order, table service, if your bum leaves your seat, mask is on. Tables limited to 6, no table hopping, no standing, if you break the rules you’re out. Safer than a supermarket. I object to your statement, have you been to a pub in the last year?

PippaZ

Atqui

Haven’t we discussed this on another couple of threads? But my reaction is still the same: “Why did WE bloody bother ( doing as we were told)”

Because we are adults? Although I may have got that wrong. May I ask how old you are?

I do wonder, though, if all our efforts may prove futile in the face of variants brought from overseas.

It's irrelevant how old Atqui is, surely?
If old then possibly vulnerable and understandably miffed if he or she has been careful for the past 18 months.

PippaZ

Dinahmo

At least by sticking to the rules we are still here. I for one am grateful.

That is a nail well hit on the head Dinahmo. Whoever and whatever it is certainly good to be here.

So what you are saying is that those who died are themselves to blame for not sticking to the rules?

Incredible!!

Callistemon

PippaZ

Dinahmo

At least by sticking to the rules we are still here. I for one am grateful.

That is a nail well hit on the head Dinahmo. Whoever and whatever it is certainly good to be here.

So what you are saying is that those who died are themselves to blame for not sticking to the rules?

Incredible!!

No Dinahmo. That was neither what I said or inferred. Sadly many died last year and this year who will be sorely missed. As my own mother died last February I am hardly likely to be saying such things. But is has to be said that I, and by the look of it Dinahmo are glad to have survived this difficult time.

Of course we're glad to still be here, we did try to stick to the rules but many have died through no fault of their own and had also stuck to the rules.

Casdon

There’s a picture of Priti Patel having her first COVID vaccine this morning on the BBC news webpage. She met ministers from India last week when the delegation was in the UK - and she’s 49- odd.

I saw this article as well and was surprised that Priti Patel was having her first injection today when being aged 49, she could have had it some time ago. I expected newspapers to have made a fuss and challenged her on this.

Callistemon

Of course we're glad to still be here, we did try to stick to the rules but many have died through no fault of their own and had also ^stuck to the rules.^

I never came anywhere near saying they did Callistemon. I have no idea why you are continuing with this insulting comment. I don't think, for instance, that is was my mother's fault she died when she did.

I will not reply further. These comment come very close to being disgusting.

-did- didn't

No, it should be did. I meant I said nothing that could lead anyone to think I was blaming those who died. That is a very sick suggestion to make.

This:
At least by sticking to the rules we are still here
That is the comment which comes very close to being disgusting.

Not mine who thought it was an incredible thing to allege.

I'm truly sorry if your mother died from Covid, really I am. It is all very distressing.

We have lost many people over the past 18 months too.

We have no idea if my mother died from Covid or not. Four people died of something in her home at that time - the middle of February and we did not lock down until March. No one was attributing such deaths to Covid at that time. I would rather think it was old age but it certainly made me aware of the feelings of those losing loved ones as the numbers escalted and I am glad for all that we have, so far, got some hold on the virus.

I cannot see how you can make the leap from me agreeing that I am glad to be alive to the suggestion that I was blaming anyone else for anything. I don't think I have ever seen a post quite like that on GN.

It wasn't what you said though.

I was thinking of all the NHS wor kers and other healthcare staff, bus drivers, those on the frontline and people in care homes, hospitals etc who could not stay isolated and caught Covid and died through no fault of their own.

Not everyone could stay home, stay safe.
Those who could stick to the rules are the lucky ones.

Callistemon

PippaZ

Dinahmo

At least by sticking to the rules we are still here. I for one am grateful.

That is a nail well hit on the head Dinahmo. Whoever and whatever it is certainly good to be here.

So what you are saying is that those who died are themselves to blame for not sticking to the rules?

Incredible!!

Don't be so facile. The we are the people on this forum who are writing the above comments.

ie the people who are moaning.

They are supposed to provide 2 negative Covid tests before boarding plane as well as isolate back here on British soil, they haven’t done either. They have also rammed every flight going coming in from other avenues to get here. They lied, How has it spread so much so quickly. Because they refuse to isolate. This country was almost in the clear

Jaxjacky

What a gross generalisation MayBee70, our pub will have approx 70% of customers with one vaccination and at a guess 30% -45% with two. You sanitise, walk in, sign in, with a mask on, sit at a table, place your order, table service, if your bum leaves your seat, mask is on. Tables limited to 6, no table hopping, no standing, if you break the rules you’re out. Safer than a supermarket. I object to your statement, have you been to a pub in the last year?

Unless the pub has excellent ventilation it won't be safer than a supermarket at all. The prime cause of infection is by breathing in aerosols, which can linger in the air for a long time if ventilation is poor. You could be sitting for a long period in an aerosol 'cloud' , in danger of infection every time you drop your mask to drink or eat. Distancing makes little difference in those circumstances and there is nothing magical about being restricted to 6 at a table. Being vaccinated doesn't reliably prevent infection, just makes it less severe.

Supermarkets much safer as you don't linger in those aerosols and you don't remove your mask. They're probably better ventilated, too.

It's of course down to individual choice whether or not one sits inside a pub or restaurant, but it has its risks.

Understanding of the significance of aerosols and how they behave has been very slow to sink in. Which has meant that their importance has not been properly recognised and advice properly targeted until quite recently.

Jaxjacky

What a gross generalisation MayBee70, our pub will have approx 70% of customers with one vaccination and at a guess 30% -45% with two. You sanitise, walk in, sign in, with a mask on, sit at a table, place your order, table service, if your bum leaves your seat, mask is on. Tables limited to 6, no table hopping, no standing, if you break the rules you’re out. Safer than a supermarket. I object to your statement, have you been to a pub in the last year?

No I haven’t been to a pub in the past year and I don’t intend to go to one in the near future. One of the first things that eastern countries did at the start of the pandemic was to turn off air conditioning and ventilate everywhere. The need to ventilate has taken even longer to sink in than the fact that the WHO originally said that the virus wasn’t airborne so no one thought it was. Many still do. Which doesn’t mean that I don’t sympathise with people who run pubs etc. We’ve had beer lorries coming through the village for days delivering to local pubs and it would be unfair if the government suddenly announced that they weren’t allowed to open on Monday. But the fact is there will be an element of risk involved and it’s wrong to say that any inside environment is safe. Especially as people will be eating drinking and talking without masks on. If the government had acted sooner we wouldn’t be in this position so be angry with them, not me. I want this pandemic to be over so that people such as yourself can open up your businesses 100% and I’ve done everything personally possible over the past year to enable that to happen. Someone on Facebook the other day said all of their friends gave false names and addresses because they couldn’t afford to not work if they were contacted. I’m seriously concerned about what is going to happen over the next few weeks because the India variant is even more transmissible than the Kent one and the R rate (which doesn’t seem to get mentioned much these days) is hovering @1 and is possibly higher.

"I do wonder, though, if all our efforts may prove futile in the face of variants brought from overseas."

^^ I think it boils down to this. We can be as careful as we like, we can stick to the rules, but if a variant is allowed to seep into this country because of no shutdown when it should've happened, we are powerless.

Whitehall was very concerned about this variant coming in but Boris was pressing ahead with this Trade visit and when eventually he called it off there was still a three day period when flights were still arriving before a block was put on this. Downing Street had said that countries could be added to the red list at a few hours notice, but that did not happen with India.

Skyscanner reported a 250% increase in looking for flights from India to England in those three days.

And there you have it....

We can be as careful as we like, but we can't control this when bad decisions are made.

Maybe a supermarket was a bad analogy, the pub doors will be open and I understand vaccination doesn’t protect 100% by any means.
To go back to the OP, yes, we were too late stopping flights from India, I’m not excusing that, but we are not the only country with this variant. At the moment, it doesn’t seem to be causing an increase in hospital admissions, long may that continue. There will be other variants, there needs to be a fast, agreed procedure to minimise entry of those to the UK.

So what you are saying is that those who died are themselves to blame for not sticking to the rules?

That is certainly not what I thought was being said, or how I read it. Many people are grateful that they are still here and feel that keeping themselves as safe as possible has helped them to be here. That does not mean that they are not aware of the many who also tried to keep themselves safe but were unlucky, possibly never knowing how they caught it, and lost their lives. That happened to one of my oldest friends!

I agree. I didn’t read it that way. either.

I mentioned this on two other posts/threads.
It`s madness,all the work we have all put into staying safe/having vaccines keeping away from our loved ones/friends/work etc has been put in jeapardy.
I`m bluddy furious.

Callistemon

It wasn't what you said though.

I was thinking of all the NHS wor kers and other healthcare staff, bus drivers, those on the frontline and people in care homes, hospitals etc who could not stay isolated and caught Covid and died through no fault of their own.

Not everyone could stay home, stay safe.
Those who could stick to the rules are the lucky ones.

I don't think anybody is disputing that.

In my opinion, the relaxation should not be happening on Monday - tomorrow. It is asking for trouble.

timetogo2016

I mentioned this on two other posts/threads.
It`s madness,all the work we have all put into staying safe/having vaccines keeping away from our loved ones/friends/work etc has been put in jeapardy.
I`m bluddy furious.

Oh yes- not been allowed to see son and GC for so long, and were finally planning to visit in July- and DIL now says this probably will not happen, due to variant.