Let us hope that Johnson has finally learned some lessons.

Alegrias1

What emerging data is this please WWM2, do you have a source?

Also, which scientists are talking about firming up travel restrictions?

This? From the BBC website

Another leading scientific adviser to the government has urged caution this morning over the 21 June easing of Covid restrictions.

Prof Adam Finn, from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, says officials should have a clear picture of the pandemic before such moves are made.

Speaking on ITV's Good Morning Britain, he says that while the country's vaccination programme "will ultimately give us... protection" against the Indian coronavirus variant, key markers in the community should be taken into account before the next phase of reopening.

" I think it's unfortunate that everyone's got this particular date in their head, because really what we need to do is understand how things are going and adjust accordingly," Prof Finn says.

"What we've done wrong in the past is left it too late and delayed making decisions, ultimately pushed them back and then ended up with large waves of infection."

And this

A scientist advising the government says lockdown relaxations planned for 21 June in England should be delayed by a "few weeks "
Professor Ravi Gupta says there are early signs the UK is in a new wave of Covid-19 and more intelligence should be gathered
Twickenham Rugby Stadium has opened as England's largest vaccination centre, as the government tries to speed up the rollout of jabs
Around a million households fear losing their homes as England's coronavirus eviction ban comes to an end on Monday, a charity says
And France has banned all non-essential travel from the UK to try to stop the spread of the Indian variant

What emerging data is this please WWM2, do you have a source?

Also, which scientists are talking about firming up travel restrictions?

So emerging data on the transmissibility of the Indian variant is pointing towards it being wise to delay the opening up on 21 June and delay until perhaps the school summer holidays when transmission rates will of course be lower.

Scientists are also advising that restrictions on international travel be firmed up over the summer.

The fact of this delay and the spread of the Indian variant is entirely Johnson’s responsibility
.

The delay in closing the border to the Indian sub-continent for 3 weeks is entirely down to Johnson’s responsibility, and his decision to “wait and see”

Watch and wait to see if Johnson takes advise to delay opening up.

I’m quite happy to go along with opening up more ( although I won’t change how I’m living) as long as the government continues with hands face space ventilate. Once those things are dropped it will be difficult to get them back.

India should have been put on the red list when Pakistan and Bangladesh were, in my opinion. Not doing so was a grave mistake.

The question is

Should we play it safe even though we may be proved wrong?

Or

Open up as planned with the risks that we know it will bring?

The NHS is asking that the government, in its considerations, does not make the decision that will put further pressure on the NHS as it has so much to catch up on, and trying to save lives from early cancer detection, heart operations etc.

There are some important issues I feel that we don’t yet know. Is the virus spreading rapidly in schools, and why haven’t the figures been released? Are schools really “safe spaces” for children when mask wearing is no longer required and some schools have not been given funding to ensure classrooms are adequately ventilated. (I believe some windows don’t even open).

As I understand it, the now dominant Indian variant is now starting to circulate freely in many communities, particularly in schools, albeit to those who are less at risk from serious illness, and it has more chance to further mutate. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it will develop into a more vaccine resistant form, it could become less so. The problem is we do not know at this stage.

He is unfortunately putting trade deals ahead of safety.

Johnson knew that the Indian variant was in the U.K. on 1 st April.

He did not think to mention that fact until the 15th April.

Control of our borders against the Indian variant did not happen until 23rd April.

Johnson still can’t be trusted to do the right thing.

We have to wait and see. We will know on 14th June.

Alegrias1

The title of the thread is about Boris learning lessons so I'm not arguing with it, it just seemed to me that he was being criticised for not deciding on the lockdown, when we are far from that stage yet.

My bad, as the young people say....

He is being criticised for past crap decision making and in the hope that he will have learned lessons.

Johnson and learning lessons? . Isnt that an oxymoron?

The PM is not due to disclose further unlocking until 14/06/21 giving 7 days notice for the implementation on 21/06/21.

The only figures I have been able to see were for hospitals in Bolton were only 4% of inpatients are currently due to Covid-19. I understand that it takes between 3-4 weeks from onset of the virus to hospitalisation (if necessary).

Obviously the PM, Government and scientists are monitoring the situation as one of the roadmap markers is hospitalisation due to COVID-19, as the average age of those currently infected (BBC) is 29 it is hopefully highly unlikely that hospital numbers will increase by much, if any.

I do not think that Boris is dithering at this moment because he is indeed waiting for scientific evidence nearer the date - although it is very hard for those who work in the entertainment industry not to know whether they can sell tickets.

But Boris has up to now dithered when he gets to the wire - schools back for one day is a prime example.

The title of the thread is about Boris learning lessons so I'm not arguing with it, it just seemed to me that he was being criticised for not deciding on the lockdown, when we are far from that stage yet.

My bad, as the young people say....

Not me Algrias wouldn't want his job I have always been a Conservative supporter and I certainly dont hate Boris
But I wish he had slammed the door shut on India sooner I know we only let uk nationals back in but they obviously didnt all isolate as they should have done
Is there something in UK legislation where we have to give uk nationals time to get home or are we allowed to say sorry you went abroad now you can just stay there until this is over

Alegrias1

OK, so this is really a bash Boris thread then?

I can't believe I just wrote that....

No - it is a trying to save further deaths and suffering thread.

The decision makers are crap. The fact that the chief decision maker is Johnson, is by the by. Surely we would be saying the same thing whoever it was if we considered the decisions to be crap?

OK, so this is really a bash Boris thread then?

I can't believe I just wrote that....

No one is suggesting that Johnson makes a decision now, that would be ridiculous, but what is happening is that mindful of the quality of his decisions in the past, that the warnings are made and hopefully noted for when the decision will eventually have to be made nearer the time.

The “wait and see” method has resulted in every decision being made long after it should have been made.

Absolutely hopeless and a killer.

rosie1959

They have no choice but to wait and see if the vaccine is doing its job
They would not consider any form of lockdown or reverse at the moment when hospital admissions are low I think they would get protests especially from the hospitality industry they need to get going again
There will no doubt be more variants but we cant put the country on hold if few are getting seriously sick

Agree completely rosie1959

The 21st June is nearly 4 weeks away. He's not dithering, he's waiting for evidence.

I think he's a liability, I don't support him at all, but there's no point in making a decision now about what needs to happen 4 weeks out, not where this virus is concerned. And ministers are already changing the mood music about the 21st.

Every time action has been needed he has dithered.

If he had not done this then there would be no need to "put the country on hold."

The horse has bolted because he left the stable door open - sadly we cannot turn the clock back.

They have no choice but to wait and see if the vaccine is doing its job
They would not consider any form of lockdown or reverse at the moment when hospital admissions are low I think they would get protests especially from the hospitality industry they need to get going again
There will no doubt be more variants but we cant put the country on hold if few are getting seriously sick

He won’t. It’ll make him unpopular with his cult followers. Have you not learned yet he doesn’t give a ........

The “wait and see” was exactly the policy Johnson has followed throughout this past year.

Let’s wait and see if the up-tick in cases turns into more pressure on the NHS and then let’s wait and see if hospitalisation translates into unnecessary deaths, then see if you can persuade me to lockdown a few weeks after it was necessary.

It was Boris dithering about closing the borders to India that has put us in the position we are in at the moment. Australia and New Zealand didn't hang about making that decision. Also, inviting a delegation from India to the G7 summit when they aren't even members was madness. The Government shouldn't have invited them and India should have had the sense to decline. Boris won't 'learn' anything because he doesn't think there is anything he needs to learn. Dominic Cummings mentioned that Boris's reluctance to close borders was because he didn't want to be termed a racist. I believe there is something in that. I feel so sad for the majority of us who have done as we have been asked only to find that, through no fault of our own, this summer and resuming our pre-Covid lives may not go ahead.