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Let us hope that Johnson has finally learned some lessons.

(131 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-May-21 07:43:17

Professor Sir Tim Gowers is giving out strong warnings that Johnson should think seriously about the proposed plan for lifting the final lockdown restrictions on 21 June.

Given Johnson’s track record to date where every lockdown has been too late, resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, let us hope that he is listening.

He hasn’t so far.

rosie1959 Sat 29-May-21 08:23:46

I was listening to Dr Rosemary Leonard on breakfast this morning who always appears sensible and cautious to me. She was reporting that hospital admissions and deaths were staying relatively stable. Although cases are rising it is in the much younger age groups 10 to 19 and most suffered no serious illness if any
Those that have been vaccinated ie the vulnerable groups 1 to 9 were in the main being protected by vaccination
Expecting it to be a game of wait and see will they keep restrictions in place if the vulnerable are not so much at risk
I cannot see ten of thousands of deaths if the vaccine is doing its job

lemongrove Sat 29-May-21 08:31:05

I agree rosie but as with anything it’s ‘wait and see’ no decision can be rushed. Hospital admissions are bound to go up at first simply because we are all mingling more, and some people are mingling with loads of others.Vaccinations are continuing apace with the younger ones getting jabs now.
The true picture will emerge by the 21st or shortly before.
I just hope the Indian variant can be kept under control.

Luckygirl Sat 29-May-21 08:52:00

I just hope he will follow the scientific advice this time.

The debacle of schools returning for one day (for the purpose of spreading the virus it would seem!) is a prime example of him ignoring the advice.

How does he go on getting away with these things?

Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-May-21 08:55:43

Luckygirl

I just hope he will follow the scientific advice this time.

The debacle of schools returning for one day (for the purpose of spreading the virus it would seem!) is a prime example of him ignoring the advice.

How does he go on getting away with these things?

Because as Ms Hyde suggested, his followers are part of a cult, and of course the MSM are generally supportive.

Blinko Sat 29-May-21 09:12:03

How does he go on getting away with these things?

He can get away with anything with that 80 seat majority. There's just no way to stop him. A pity we are saddled with a reckless PM for the foreseeable.

Sarnia Sat 29-May-21 09:20:52

It was Boris dithering about closing the borders to India that has put us in the position we are in at the moment. Australia and New Zealand didn't hang about making that decision. Also, inviting a delegation from India to the G7 summit when they aren't even members was madness. The Government shouldn't have invited them and India should have had the sense to decline. Boris won't 'learn' anything because he doesn't think there is anything he needs to learn. Dominic Cummings mentioned that Boris's reluctance to close borders was because he didn't want to be termed a racist. I believe there is something in that. I feel so sad for the majority of us who have done as we have been asked only to find that, through no fault of our own, this summer and resuming our pre-Covid lives may not go ahead.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-May-21 09:49:57

The “wait and see” was exactly the policy Johnson has followed throughout this past year.

Let’s wait and see if the up-tick in cases turns into more pressure on the NHS and then let’s wait and see if hospitalisation translates into unnecessary deaths, then see if you can persuade me to lockdown a few weeks after it was necessary.

Polarbear2 Sat 29-May-21 09:56:38

He won’t. It’ll make him unpopular with his cult followers. Have you not learned yet he doesn’t give a ........

rosie1959 Sat 29-May-21 09:57:26

They have no choice but to wait and see if the vaccine is doing its job
They would not consider any form of lockdown or reverse at the moment when hospital admissions are low I think they would get protests especially from the hospitality industry they need to get going again
There will no doubt be more variants but we cant put the country on hold if few are getting seriously sick

Luckygirl Sat 29-May-21 10:15:18

Every time action has been needed he has dithered.

If he had not done this then there would be no need to "put the country on hold."

The horse has bolted because he left the stable door open - sadly we cannot turn the clock back.

Alegrias1 Sat 29-May-21 10:18:33

rosie1959

They have no choice but to wait and see if the vaccine is doing its job
They would not consider any form of lockdown or reverse at the moment when hospital admissions are low I think they would get protests especially from the hospitality industry they need to get going again
There will no doubt be more variants but we cant put the country on hold if few are getting seriously sick

Agree completely rosie1959

The 21st June is nearly 4 weeks away. He's not dithering, he's waiting for evidence.

I think he's a liability, I don't support him at all, but there's no point in making a decision now about what needs to happen 4 weeks out, not where this virus is concerned. And ministers are already changing the mood music about the 21st.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-May-21 10:33:29

No one is suggesting that Johnson makes a decision now, that would be ridiculous, but what is happening is that mindful of the quality of his decisions in the past, that the warnings are made and hopefully noted for when the decision will eventually have to be made nearer the time.

The “wait and see” method has resulted in every decision being made long after it should have been made.

Absolutely hopeless and a killer.

Alegrias1 Sat 29-May-21 10:46:36

OK, so this is really a bash Boris thread then?

I can't believe I just wrote that....grin

Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-May-21 10:54:04

Alegrias1

OK, so this is really a bash Boris thread then?

I can't believe I just wrote that....grin

No - it is a trying to save further deaths and suffering thread.

The decision makers are crap. The fact that the chief decision maker is Johnson, is by the by. Surely we would be saying the same thing whoever it was if we considered the decisions to be crap?

rosie1959 Sat 29-May-21 11:01:00

Not me Algrias wouldn't want his job I have always been a Conservative supporter and I certainly dont hate Boris
But I wish he had slammed the door shut on India sooner I know we only let uk nationals back in but they obviously didnt all isolate as they should have done
Is there something in UK legislation where we have to give uk nationals time to get home or are we allowed to say sorry you went abroad now you can just stay there until this is over

Alegrias1 Sat 29-May-21 11:21:04

The title of the thread is about Boris learning lessons so I'm not arguing with it, it just seemed to me that he was being criticised for not deciding on the lockdown, when we are far from that stage yet.

My bad, as the young people say....

Luckygirl Sat 29-May-21 11:30:36

I do not think that Boris is dithering at this moment because he is indeed waiting for scientific evidence nearer the date - although it is very hard for those who work in the entertainment industry not to know whether they can sell tickets.

But Boris has up to now dithered when he gets to the wire - schools back for one day is a prime example.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 29-May-21 11:42:09

The PM is not due to disclose further unlocking until 14/06/21 giving 7 days notice for the implementation on 21/06/21.

The only figures I have been able to see were for hospitals in Bolton were only 4% of inpatients are currently due to Covid-19. I understand that it takes between 3-4 weeks from onset of the virus to hospitalisation (if necessary).

Obviously the PM, Government and scientists are monitoring the situation as one of the roadmap markers is hospitalisation due to COVID-19, as the average age of those currently infected (BBC) is 29 it is hopefully highly unlikely that hospital numbers will increase by much, if any.

silverlining48 Sat 29-May-21 11:45:12

Johnson and learning lessons? . Isnt that an oxymoron?

Whitewavemark2 Sat 29-May-21 11:48:20

Alegrias1

The title of the thread is about Boris learning lessons so I'm not arguing with it, it just seemed to me that he was being criticised for not deciding on the lockdown, when we are far from that stage yet.

My bad, as the young people say....

He is being criticised for past crap decision making and in the hope that he will have learned lessons.

maddyone Sun 30-May-21 00:56:50

We have to wait and see. We will know on 14th June.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 30-May-21 09:50:47

Johnson knew that the Indian variant was in the U.K. on 1 st April.

He did not think to mention that fact until the 15th April.

Control of our borders against the Indian variant did not happen until 23rd April.

Johnson still can’t be trusted to do the right thing.

NotSpaghetti Sun 30-May-21 09:58:08

He is unfortunately putting trade deals ahead of safety.

Greeneyedgirl Sun 30-May-21 10:25:40

There are some important issues I feel that we don’t yet know. Is the virus spreading rapidly in schools, and why haven’t the figures been released? Are schools really “safe spaces” for children when mask wearing is no longer required and some schools have not been given funding to ensure classrooms are adequately ventilated. (I believe some windows don’t even open).

As I understand it, the now dominant Indian variant is now starting to circulate freely in many communities, particularly in schools, albeit to those who are less at risk from serious illness, and it has more chance to further mutate. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it will develop into a more vaccine resistant form, it could become less so. The problem is we do not know at this stage.