Grandchildren Bubble sent home

MerylStreep

Spidergran
This might come as a shock to you but the are a lot of eminent scientists who know that we are never going to be free of the virus.
Maybe you should get used to the idea.

Possibly not free entirely, but at the moment it's out of control yet again.

Re Mollygo post Tuesday and lateral flo tests. Portugal have now stated that children up to 18 years with double vaccinated parents do not have to quarantine if they produce negative LF. What safeguards are there in place to stop someone registering a test as negative when it is positive? I am thinking in terms of a family booking a holiday and their children testing positive but they don’t want to cancel so register test as negative and get on the plane anyway.

How would those people who think schools should just "learn to live with it" feel if one of their grandchildren were to be seriously affected and they didn't call for mitigation in schools and/or the vaccination of children?
Where our grandchildren are concerned it's no business of ours to make the decision regarding vaccination anyway. That is up to the parents and adolescents themselves. Those parents I know of primary age children are, with justification, against doing so. They see the potential side effects of the vaccine on a young child carrying more dangers than their having covid itself.

Gwyneth that could be possible, couldn't it? Our passports don't carry chips with details of our health status do they?

My 2 year old grandson may have to isolate for 10 days if the PCR test for his nursery assistant comes in positive today. He has already been isolated for 2 days. Therein lies the problem. Although he cannot leave the house everyone else can including his 4 year sister. You cannot shut a 2 year old in one room so should he get it they are all at risk and anyone they come in contact with. Gd needs to get to school so if dd and sil
are unable to do it any day they are stuck unless I and other grandma volunteer. Dh is vulnerable but we have both had double jab so I will offer to walk gd to or from school as necessary. Dd would rather I didn’t. It is a dilemma for families in this situation.

I completely support what growstuff has said. It seems that a huge experiment is being carried out on children, allowing Covid to surge through schools with inadequate mitigating support, which some scientists have been calling for from the beginning. It is too early to tell what, if any, long term effects Covid will have on our children, and there is ongoing research. I don’t think it is “irrational fear” to question these things. Just check out Longcovidkids a patient led advocacy and support group.

It's an experiment either way Greeneyedgirl and we have no idea which way is right.
a patient led advocacy and support group isn't always the best barometer from which to decide for me. Science will prevail.

25Avalon I agree that sending the entire nursery home causes far more problems and isn't totally foolproof anyway.

Ellianne

^How would those people who think schools should just "learn to live with it" feel if one of their grandchildren were to be seriously affected and they didn't call for mitigation in schools and/or the vaccination of children?^
Where our grandchildren are concerned it's no business of ours to make the decision regarding vaccination anyway. That is up to the parents and adolescents themselves. Those parents I know of primary age children are, with justification, against doing so. They see the potential side effects of the vaccine on a young child carrying more dangers than their having covid itself.

The Pfizer/BionTech vaccination isn't licensed for primary school children anyway, but it is being used for those over 12. It's secondary schools which are causing the problems at the moment, although I appreciate you don't have experience of them. The government is putting no effort at all into mitigating the risks for teenagers, who suffer the same effects as young adults. It is irresponsible to urge secondary schools not to isolate pupils until mitigation measures such as vaccination, good ventilation and mask wearing is in place. Some grandparents are doing that. Secondary school infections are currently driving community transmission and vice versa.

25Avalon

My 2 year old grandson may have to isolate for 10 days if the PCR test for his nursery assistant comes in positive today. He has already been isolated for 2 days. Therein lies the problem. Although he cannot leave the house everyone else can including his 4 year sister. You cannot shut a 2 year old in one room so should he get it they are all at risk and anyone they come in contact with. Gd needs to get to school so if dd and sil
are unable to do it any day they are stuck unless I and other grandma volunteer. Dh is vulnerable but we have both had double jab so I will offer to walk gd to or from school as necessary. Dd would rather I didn’t. It is a dilemma for families in this situation.

All of this is precisely why attempts must be made to avoid infection in the first place.

Ellianne

It's an experiment either way Greeneyedgirl and we have no idea which way is right.
a patient led advocacy and support group isn't always the best barometer from which to decide for me. Science will prevail.

Oh! I don't think anybody could claim that infecting large numbers of children, which is what is happening without mitigating measures, is right.

A lot of children are asymptomatic which makes it difficult to trace and why all the children in the nursery have to be tested if the nursery assistant is definitely positive. Then you have a better idea if she gave it to any of them or if one of them gave it to her and what action needs to be taken.

Check out the Martin Lewis Newsletter, sorry can't do links.
He mentions possible compensation for working parents with school children isolating at home due to bubbles bursting.

I do not believe the experience and concerns of parents with children suffering from long Covid can be easily dismissed Ellianne. Neither apparently do scientists.
A study by researchers into long Covid suffered by adults and older children is under way at UCL. It includes children who were not hospitalised with Covid aged 11-17yrs. Over 2 years they will question the 3,000 children on their health , also 3,000 who tested negative for Covid. Professor Stephenson, one of the researchers is reported as saying it is really important in science to believe what you hear - not hear what you believe.
This study is in response to scarcity of data on long Covid in children.
Surely it is better to be cautious whilst so much is unknown about the long term effects, ensuring schools have better support and funding, to enable as safe an environment as possible for children and staff alike.

Sorry, I'm not dismissing any concerns of parents Greeneyedgirl. I assumed you meant some kind of facebook support group but now you explain about the UCL study, although only a small number, that is different. I am in a NCDS cohort, 28,000 of us, who are being questioned and monitored during Covid, but it usually takes a while before they report back to us on their findings.
I agree it is important to be careful, the next step as far as school children is concerned is to implement the proposed daily tests and just remove any child who is infected, not the entire year group. That way, there will be no need for bubbles either.
That seems fine for secondary schools, but my experience of younger children is that this daily testing would be almost impossible to carry out efficiently and sympathetically in primary schools.
So there will always be a fair number of asymptomatic infected kids floating about in schools and in the community.

On the subject I was talking to a friend today whose husband is a GP. Apparently their surgery is currently getting more notifications of people testing positive, but hardly any reports of illness. Mainly because of the young age of the patients who appear not to be suffering badly.

But some of the are suffering badly!! There are at least two children in my town who have had to be hospitalised. You seem prepared to ignore them. It's Russian roulette which ones are seriously ill and this "laissez faire" attitude to children is going to lead to thousands having long-term effects. Nobody knows whether some will be affected for life, but you appear to think that's a risk worth taking, on behalf of the young.

LFTs are unreliable and don't pick up all positive cases. They were never intended for that purpose.

The priority must be to mitigate against transmission amongst school age children, including vaccination, good ventilation and mask wearing. Only when those measures are in place should strategies such as not sending contacts home be attempted.

err the household is supposed to isolate too until they have negative PCR tests
it should detail that in the information sent home from school

Thanks for getting back Ellianne. I am sure all of us, parents and grandparents hope for our children to come safely through this pandemic without long term damage, physical and emotional.
Interesting about your part in the NCDS during Covid study. A friend of mine is participating in the ONS Covid survey, and has the advantage of knowing her current antibody status because of testing.

The letters from school make it quite clear children should not be leaving their household and parents should not be going to work!

It's estimated that 85% of the population needs to be immune before the country has "herd immunity". Currently, less than 50% of the population has full immunity (ie two doses) and an unknown number has acquired natural immunity, but it's nowhere near 85% in total. Until then, children will be at high risk of infection.

Nobody is disputing that a self-isolating child and family is hugely disruptive in so many ways, which is why it is absolutely essential that there is an attempt at mitigation, which there currently isn't. Either heads are being stuck in sand or there is a deliberate agenda to infect children like "chicken pox" parties.

JaneJudge

err the household is supposed to isolate too until they have negative PCR tests
it should detail that in the information sent home from school

Yes. I've seen two children aged 13 ish out and about with parents at the garden centre today. Who knows?

it is the information home from our schools as other classes have been sent home again I don't know why they don't just wind up now tbh, they do bugger all the last 2 weeks of school before summer anyway and everything else has been cancelled

Nobody knows whether some will be affected for life, but you appear to think that's a risk worth taking, on behalf of the young.
I have said many times, only on behalf of under 12s at primary school.

JaneJudge

it is the information home from our schools as other classes have been sent home again I don't know why they don't just wind up now tbh, they do bugger all the last 2 weeks of school before summer anyway and everything else has been cancelled

Don't say that, you'll be accused of insinuating teachers are lazy!
I used to love the last few weeks of term - Activities Week, French trip, Sports Day, Speech Day, barbecues, treasure hunts, etc.
It was harder work than being in the classroom but lovely to have a different sort of fun with the children.