Are we pinning our hope too much on the vaccine?

It’s very interesting Monica, thank you.

I have posted this on another thread but I saw it today and thought how apposite it was to the current situation where numbers are so variable. On second thoughts this is probably the most suitable thread to post it on.

Mirren absolutely agree.

growstuff, I was referring to a normal flu year and what will be a normal COVID year. I specifically excepted the year the pandemic, that is why I reversed MayBee70s quotation.

So many people seem to think that while COVID exists they must hanker down. We have got to learn to accept it is going to become just another disease in the pantheon of diseases that threaten us, but one that could be dangerous but for the vaccine. As with flu, measles, mump, german measles etc etc.

growstuff ditto. A+ to you too.

Smileless2012

Whether we agree with the governments decision on mask wearing or not, it will be up to the individual to decide and saying that those who wish to continue will be "forced into their own lock down by others" is inflammatory and divisive.

Yes of course it is Smileless. And nothing less than I expected.

Mirren totally agree.

Lucca very good.

Medical experts in London today were asked if it is time to ease the COVID lockdowns.
Allergists were in favour of scratching it, but Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves.
Gastroenterologists had a sort of a gut feeling about it, but Neurologists thought the government lacked the nerve.
Obstetricians felt certain everyone was labouring under a misconception, while Ophthalmologists considered the idea short-sighted.
Many Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" while Paediatricians said, "Oh, grow up!"
Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while Radiologists could see right through it.
Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing and pharmacists claimed it would be a bitter pill to swallow.
Plastic Surgeons opined that this proposal would "put a whole new face on the matter."
Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but Urologists were pissed off by the whole idea.
Anaesthetists thought the whole idea was a gas, and Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no.
In the end, the Proctologists/Colorectal Surgeons won out, leaving the entire decision up to the a**holes in politics.?

Once all the vulnerable are vaccinated we should be able to open up .
The vaccine does not stop everyone getting Covid at all . My double jabbed 34 year old daughter tested positive yesterday , having caught it from her single jabbed husband.
Thankfully neither are " ill " ill . Sore throat , headache, stuffed up nose . Daughter says like having a really bad cold ( which is , of course, how we thought it would be back in the very beginning, before the hospitals filled and people died )
However, if that is usual degree of severity for the future then we should be prepared for the fact we are bound to catch repeated doses , just like a cold . This way we will gain or boost the immunity we have.
Of course, sadly , there will be those who do get very poorly and some will die . We all know this happens in flu season but people also still die after catching the " common cold " if this leads to secondary infections and pneumonia etc .
It's horrible being poorly , I agree and I agree there is a risk of Long Covid ( just as there is a risk of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome after other viral illness, especially Flu )
I think we just have to bite the bullet, keep our vaccines up to date , take sensible precautions and start to live again .

Whether we agree with the governments decision on mask wearing or not, it will be up to the individual to decide and saying that those who wish to continue will be "forced into their own lock down by others" is inflammatory and divisive.

growstuff

M0nica

Every death is a tragedy, but we all have to die some times and do people get so angst ridden when someone dies of flu? And I think more are dying of flu than COVID.

In the pandemic with the huge deaths, yes, I understand, and I would reverse MayBee70* 's and say a million deaths above normal is a tragedy, but someone dying from a common disease is a statistic.

Where did you read that more people are dying from flu than Covid because it's not true.

"In a bad flu year on average around 30,000 people in the UK die from flu and pneumonia, with a loss of around 250,000 life years. This is a sixth of the life years lost to COVID-19."

www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/one-year-on-three-myths-about-COVID-19-that-the-data-proved-wrong

I think the government and the media have made a large number people scared of the chance that they may catch Covid and DIE! it is tragic when any one you kow personally die, but when old fred up the road dies, you may have a brief moment of sadness for him and his family but thats it.

no one dies of old age... we will all die of something!

What about the average of 48,000 deaths from sepsis in the UK each year. No one talks or worries about that! www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51138859

There were 5,691 suicides in England and Wales in 2019

There are more than 166,000 cancer deaths in the UK every year www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics-for-the-uk

Top ten leading causes of death in year to date 2020Number of deaths
COVID-19 69,101
Dementia and
Alzheimer's disease 66,060
Ischaemic heart diseases51,979
Cerebrovascular diseases27,681
Chronic lower respiratory
diseases 26,917
Malignant neoplasm
of trachea, bronchus
and lung 26,571
Influenza and
pneumonia 18,656

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/totaldeathsintheukin2020anddeathsfromheartattacksheartdiseasecancerandalzheimersanddementia2016to2020

maddyone

^……Thank you for your assessment of my writing. It saddens me that I have, on this occasion, been awarded an E.^

growstuff I’m impressed, an attempt at humour. Nice to see.

A+ to you for sarcasm

tickingbird

Why don’t you all just do what feels right for you? We aren’t going around spreading covid19 by not wearing a mask outside. I only wear a mask now when I have to. I wash my hands, avoid overly crowded places and generally stay aware.

We all have to die, we are ALL going to die. Life is for living and I don’t wish to live like this for much longer. I’m fed up with it and it’s about time all these restrictions were lifted, albeit responsibly. If some people aren’t happy about it then nobody is forcing them to go out and mingle or stop wearing a mask. We can all stay in our own lockdown if we wish. Keep healthy, lose weight and stop expecting the government to micro manage our lives.

But what you don't seem to understand is that people who are maybe more vulnerable don't want to stay in their own lockdown. I agree about not wearing masks outside (they're not compulsory now, are they?) but people want to be able to use public transport or go into an enclosed space without feeling they're going to have people breathing all over them. Such people are being forced into their own lockdown by others.

tickingbird

Why don’t you all just do what feels right for you? We aren’t going around spreading covid19 by not wearing a mask outside. I only wear a mask now when I have to. I wash my hands, avoid overly crowded places and generally stay aware.

We all have to die, we are ALL going to die. Life is for living and I don’t wish to live like this for much longer. I’m fed up with it and it’s about time all these restrictions were lifted, albeit responsibly. If some people aren’t happy about it then nobody is forcing them to go out and mingle or stop wearing a mask. We can all stay in our own lockdown if we wish. Keep healthy, lose weight and stop expecting the government to micro manage our lives.

????????????????

Well said tickingbird.

Why don’t you all just do what feels right for you? We aren’t going around spreading covid19 by not wearing a mask outside. I only wear a mask now when I have to. I wash my hands, avoid overly crowded places and generally stay aware.

We all have to die, we are ALL going to die. Life is for living and I don’t wish to live like this for much longer. I’m fed up with it and it’s about time all these restrictions were lifted, albeit responsibly. If some people aren’t happy about it then nobody is forcing them to go out and mingle or stop wearing a mask. We can all stay in our own lockdown if we wish. Keep healthy, lose weight and stop expecting the government to micro manage our lives.

MayBee there is no need to be so touchy. We are having a discussion online, not changing the world. A bit of humour never goes amiss.

I didn’t realise we were supposed to find amusement of some kind in the face of rising infection rates etc.

……Thank you for your assessment of my writing. It saddens me that I have, on this occasion, been awarded an E.

growstuff I’m impressed, an attempt at humour. Nice to see.

The problem with government policy is that it is crap, mostly based on dogma.

You’d be very foolish to be entirely guided by anything they say quite frankly.

Much, much better quality of information is out there.

MOnica Thank you for your assessment of my writing. It saddens me that I have, on this occasion, been awarded an E-.

I am well aware of the government's policy, which in my opinion, is totally inappropriate for a public health crisis. A public collective response is needed, but sadly in our divided society that seems impossible.

One problem with "personal choice" is that people need accurate, comprehensive information, which most people don't have. Personal choice is in most cases an illusion, but an instinctive reaction guided by (sometimes) irrational and deeply embedded prejudices. Compare how the Nazis used the concept of the "Wille" (will).

Another problem specific to wearing masks is that one person's personal choice affects the personal choice of others, because they are less safe.

We are now part of a huge herd immunity experiment nanna….

All I can say is aaarrrgggh. They’d have fifty pink fits here with the amount of infection you still have and no way would they loosen the requirements for mask wearing and social distancing even though most of you seem to be vaccinated now. Boris no doubt has had his injections as well as having had Covid so he is ok, but what about the rest of you ?

growstuff Now you are descending to weasel words, and that is very unlike you. You are taking words out of context and then twisting them to mean what they do not.

I said: ^ It is a personal choice based by each individual's assessment of the probability of them being a risk to other people or being at risk from other people. That risk will vary from place to place.^

and again: There is only personal choice based on a reasoned assessment on our threat levels

Taking the words personal choice and quoting them without context is what papers like the Sun and Daily Mirror do.

Government policy is that each person should make their own assessment of circumstances they are in as to whether a mask is necessary or not. There will be circumstances when I will wear a mask, as I have made abundantly clear. I will make an assessment of each situation and behave appropriately.

Continuing to wear a mask is also a personal choice, with or without any words you choose to embed them in.

I just lifted this information from Wales Online.

The latest ONS data suggests that there are 856,000 people living with long Covid in the UK for at least 12 weeks in the period to June 6. These figures break down as:

10,000 children aged two to 11
16,000 adolescents aged 12-16
65,000 aged 17-24
128,000 aged 25-34
241,000 aged 35-49
316,000 aged 56-69
80,000 aged over 70
But the figures could be much higher with Imperial College London estimating that in excess of two million adults in England alone may have had long Covid.