Gransnet forums

Coronavirus

The decision to end restrictions is dangerous and premature, unethical and illogical.

(561 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Sun 11-Jul-21 15:41:20

Scientists have published a letter in the Lancet, saying that they have 5 main concerns over the governments plans for unmitigated infection.
I have taken this from John Campbell’s site.

First - disproportionately affecting children and young people
There are 17 million people with no covid protection.
Exponential growth will continue until millions more people are infected
This will leave hundreds of thousands of people with long term illness and disability
Risks leaving a generation with ill health.

Second - transmission in schools will lead to educational disruption.
There should be strict mitigation in schools and eventual vaccination of children.
Important for clinically vulnerable children and socially vulnerable children.

Third - emergent of vaccine resistant mutations, with their potential spread.

Fourth - there will significant impact on exhausted clinicians.
There is no break yet between infection and hospital admission.
Rising case numbers will inevitably mean more hospital admissions.
Millions of people are waiting for procedures and many will die waiting.

Fifth
Deprived communities are very exposed.
The deprived and marginalised will be disproportionately affected.

Given that vaccine offers the same protection and herd immunity, the governments strategy is unethical and illogical.

The U.K. government must reconsider its current strategy and take urgent steps to protect people and children.
We believe that the U.K. government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause its planned endings of all mitigation on 19 July.

Ellianne Mon 12-Jul-21 21:31:08

I thought he said health passes were required for bars, restaurants etc. (Admittedly not quite restrictions, but requirements nevertheless).
Did he also say France was working towards 100% vaccination, ie mandatory?

Jaxjacky Mon 12-Jul-21 21:23:55

The village we used to live in Dordogne, thé bars aren’t under restrictions Ellianne? Macron did speak tonight stating vaccinations will be obligatory for all health workers and those in similar posts by September. I didn’t read anything in his press conference regarding closures or border changes, but a ‘health passport’ will be required from August for entry to bars, restaurants, clubs etc.

Cossy Mon 12-Jul-21 21:06:49

“songstress60

We need to get the economy back! We have the vaccine so I want my freedom, and medics are concentrating so much on Covid they are neglecting other medical procedures and operations. People are being diagnosed with cancer when it is too late to treat them. I had my cataract op cancelled 3 times. We have the vaccine. Let's get back to normal.“

Much as I empathise with your situation, this isn’t about you & your freedom ! It’s about protecting a huge number of still vulnerable people. Do you personally know anyone who had died or has long Covid ? Sadly I know two people personally who have sadly passed, both younger than I and fit and healthy and many others with long Covid. I’m a public sector front facing worker and live in a large southern England town. Nothing normal about these times and personally I’d wait a month or two longer to give more the chance to be vaccinated

MayBee70 Mon 12-Jul-21 21:02:57

Absolutely….

Cossy Mon 12-Jul-21 21:01:12

I feel extremely sorry for people who work in public transport, leisure and retail, yes we should slowly open up with restrictions, nothing wrong with masks, visors, sense, hygiene measures. We can do both ! Start to resume normality and be careful, it’s not one or the other. Had this government heeded advice in the first instance 18 months ago or longer we might not be where we are today and how dare they take credit for anything vaccine related !!!!

MayBee70 Mon 12-Jul-21 20:21:43

There is no longer such thing as normal? Since when has normal meant 100,000 people a day being infected with a novel virus?

GrannyGravy13 Mon 12-Jul-21 20:12:53

Ellianne

Maremia

A BBC report today says that the Dutch PM has just apologised to his nation for doing, three weeks ago ,what Johnson proposes for us on the 19th. The Netherlands is now going back under restrictions.

The same in France Maremia. Three weeks ago bars, night clubs, festivals all opened up. Now they are closing again or going under restrictions. Did Boris or the professors mention any review of the UK situation in say 2 or 3 weeks time? There needs to be constant monitoring and re assessment, along with a readiness to do an about turn if necessary.

Yes they did say at the press conference this evening that the situation will be constantly monitored.

Ellianne Mon 12-Jul-21 20:11:08

Maremia

A BBC report today says that the Dutch PM has just apologised to his nation for doing, three weeks ago ,what Johnson proposes for us on the 19th. The Netherlands is now going back under restrictions.

The same in France Maremia. Three weeks ago bars, night clubs, festivals all opened up. Now they are closing again or going under restrictions. Did Boris or the professors mention any review of the UK situation in say 2 or 3 weeks time? There needs to be constant monitoring and re assessment, along with a readiness to do an about turn if necessary.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 12-Jul-21 20:11:02

growstuff obviously you did not read my post these messages are coming across from both main parties

As you appear to respond to the majority of my political posts I would have assumed that by now you would have realised whilst I am a predominately a Conservative, I am not a Mr.Johnson fan.

MissAdventure Mon 12-Jul-21 19:50:46

It's like being left in a room with a lion.
A caged one, versus one roaming free.
The R rate is over 1, and that seemed unfathomable at the start of all this.
Here we are though, 18 months on, and it's still too high.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 12-Jul-21 19:26:07

Sparkling

We all know how its transmitted, just be careful. Normal life needs to resume, we have to live along side Covid.

Absolutely not! Mitigation must continue. Wait until vaccination is complete.

Sparkling Mon 12-Jul-21 19:24:05

We all know how its transmitted, just be careful. Normal life needs to resume, we have to live along side Covid.

Maremia Mon 12-Jul-21 19:21:43

A BBC report today says that the Dutch PM has just apologised to his nation for doing, three weeks ago ,what Johnson proposes for us on the 19th. The Netherlands is now going back under restrictions.

Maremia Mon 12-Jul-21 19:15:50

I repeat, GG13, the world is looking on in disbelief at us, Right Now, as we offer up our young people as guinea pigs, while there is a surge in the Delta version of Covid. Tell me, GG13, is anywhere else in the word completely opening up, just now, in similar circumstances? No. Just us. Just our youngsters being sacrificed. GG13, why don't we come back to this in one month, and see how we have fared?

growstuff Mon 12-Jul-21 19:12:46

So what did Starmer actually say about "safety concerns"?

growstuff Mon 12-Jul-21 19:08:07

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

That’s terrible GrannyGravy13 - a fully vaccinated person follows the government guidance at an outdoor event. Whatever next?

I would have no problem with him being there if he hadn’t continuously called for it not to go ahead in the format that it did.

That is what I found hypocritical, it seems to be a trend across both sides of do as we say, not what we do , these messages are coming across from both main parties.

After all the sports events along with the G7 , the general public were/are beginning to rebel

Disclaimer - I have followed every Covid regulation.

I haven't noticed you call out Johnson's hypocrisy (an there's been plenty to choose from).

growstuff Mon 12-Jul-21 19:06:24

Do you have a link to what Starmer actually said?

This is what Jon Ashworth said in the House yesterday. Was it different?

"Mr Speaker we want to see the economy reopen in a balanced, safe and sustainable way.

That means maintaining certain mitigations to contain the speed at which infections are rising and help reduce transmission and to limit the numbers exposed to the virus before they themselves are vaccinated.

Instead he’s taken a high risk, indeed fatalistic approach, trying to game what might happen in the winter, deciding that infections are going up anyway.

And instead of caution, he’s pushing his foot down on the accelerator while throwing the seat belts off.

He admits that could mean 100,000 infections a day.

With potentially thousands suffering debilitating long Covid.

And the threat of a new more transmissible variant emerging.

Two weeks ago he justified unlocking suggesting it would make us healthier, now he warns waiting lists could hit 13 million.

Hospital admissions running at over 400 a day, there are now 393 people in ICU – up over 100 since the start of July. Any significant increase in admissions knocks on to the NHS’s ability to provide wider care.

He says the infection rates will not put unsustainable pressure on the NHS.

But last week, in Leeds, cancer patients have had surgery cancelled. Last week, ambulance services across the country were reporting some of their busiest days ever. 111 is under increasing levels of pressure.

At the weekend he warned that the elective waiting lists could rise as high as 13 million.

So can he define what he means by unsustainable pressure?

What does he predict hospital admissions will peak at?

He has told he expects 100,000 infections, how many hospital admissions does he expect?

Does his confidence mean that the NHS will get no extra resources to get through this summer third wave?

He again highlights vaccination. Why are vaccination rates slowing down?

What will he do to drive up vaccination amongst young people?

Where still only 56 per cent of 18-24 have been vaccinated?

When will we begin vaccination of adolescents? Other countries are doing it why aren’t we?

Just to rely only on vaccination alone as infections climb is the approach of the one club golfer.

He needs other measures in place.

Labour would continue mandatory mask wearing. I notice his tone has shifted from last week.

It’s now his view that it’s irresponsible not to wear a mask in a crowded room, so surely it is equally irresponsible to abandon mandatory mask wearing?

Secondly on working from home, Susan Hopkins from PHE yesterday, said:

“If you are able to do your business effectively from home then I think over the next four to six weeks, with a rise in cases, we should try our best to do that.”

So will he guarantee that anyone who wants to continue working from home will be eligible to do so?

Thirdly, fresh air. Germany funded air filtration systems in public buildings.

Last week he referred to the infection control funding given to social care. But that wasn’t for ventilation.

There are British firms that manufacture air filtration and ventilation units, lets support jobs and offer grants for premises to install them.

Will he use the summer to install ventilation systems in all schools?

Fourthly, as more virus circulates, more people will be exposed, more people will become ill and more will have to isolate.

But some people still can’t isolate because of finances, and those with caring responsibilities for someone who has to isolate can also be financially penalised.

Given furlough is being withdrawn, financial support for isolation becomes more urgent.

Will he ensure those who need to isolate access adequate sick pay and support.

Fifthly, to get through this third wave and flatten the curve we will need ongoing testing and contact tracing will need capacity.

Will he give local authorities resources to lead enhanced contact tracing?

And will he abandon the proposed charges for lateral flow tests he is introducing?

Finally, when he was appointed he said any easing on July 19th would be ‘irreversible.’

Other countries have thought the same with their roadmaps, yet Israel reintroduced masks, the Netherlands closed nightclubs two weeks after reopening them.

Is it still his view the 19th is terminus day and that everything he has announced is ‘irreversible’ or does he agree it would be more sensible to have regular review dates in place through the summer as we deal with this third wave?"

Please note he has NOT advocated against loosening of restrictions. He's urging mitigations.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 12-Jul-21 18:51:11

Casdon

That’s terrible GrannyGravy13 - a fully vaccinated person follows the government guidance at an outdoor event. Whatever next?

I would have no problem with him being there if he hadn’t continuously called for it not to go ahead in the format that it did.

That is what I found hypocritical, it seems to be a trend across both sides of do as we say, not what we do , these messages are coming across from both main parties.

After all the sports events along with the G7 , the general public were/are beginning to rebel

Disclaimer - I have followed every Covid regulation.

MissAdventure Mon 12-Jul-21 18:46:40

I'm sure there will be something from one or other of them. angry

Casdon Mon 12-Jul-21 18:44:59

That’s terrible GrannyGravy13 - a fully vaccinated person follows the government guidance at an outdoor event. Whatever next?

varian Mon 12-Jul-21 18:41:45

As he has been responsible for so many wrong decisions that have cost lives Wwm2

Whitewavemark2 Mon 12-Jul-21 18:40:31

I’m currently on holiday in the North East and the local television has just stated that the rates of covid are higher than at any point in the pandemic.

The mitigation measures should remain and they should wait until the maximum adults have been double vaccinated.

Hospital admissions are surging and people are very ill indeed.

This decision is like all the others.

Johnson is responsible for the decision, and wrong.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 12-Jul-21 18:14:55

Mr.Starmer pronounced that the Euros should not go ahead with capacity crowds, he is then pictured at the Wembley final last night, unmasked.

Tonight he is advocating against further loosening of Covid regulations, total hypocrisy. Stinks of keeping the little people down

Summerlove Mon 12-Jul-21 18:14:51

Galaxy

I dont know what that means in terms of the economy. Two of the businesses in my village, 1 restaurant and 1 pub are closed due to staff testing positive. Do you think that will stop happening because of freedom day.

Yes.

Just like covid took a holiday for Christmas.

growstuff Mon 12-Jul-21 18:03:18

Galaxy

I dont know what that means in terms of the economy. Two of the businesses in my village, 1 restaurant and 1 pub are closed due to staff testing positive. Do you think that will stop happening because of freedom day.

Don't be silly! Somebody's going to have a word with one of the virus molecules and just tell it that the game's over. hmm