Scientists have published a letter in the Lancet, saying that they have 5 main concerns over the governments plans for unmitigated infection.
I have taken this from John Campbell’s site.
First - disproportionately affecting children and young people
There are 17 million people with no covid protection.
Exponential growth will continue until millions more people are infected
This will leave hundreds of thousands of people with long term illness and disability
Risks leaving a generation with ill health.
Second - transmission in schools will lead to educational disruption.
There should be strict mitigation in schools and eventual vaccination of children.
Important for clinically vulnerable children and socially vulnerable children.
Third - emergent of vaccine resistant mutations, with their potential spread.
Fourth - there will significant impact on exhausted clinicians.
There is no break yet between infection and hospital admission.
Rising case numbers will inevitably mean more hospital admissions.
Millions of people are waiting for procedures and many will die waiting.
Fifth
Deprived communities are very exposed.
The deprived and marginalised will be disproportionately affected.
Given that vaccine offers the same protection and herd immunity, the governments strategy is unethical and illogical.
The U.K. government must reconsider its current strategy and take urgent steps to protect people and children.
We believe that the U.K. government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause its planned endings of all mitigation on 19 July.
If that’s the case Maizie then it will be up to parents to decide won’t it? I seem to have missed that up till today, but did see somewhere on Gransnet, it could be this thread, that Pfizer has been licensed for over 12s. Thank you for pointing it out.
I thought that the Pfizer vaccine has been licensed for 12+ in the UK.
I would have thought that the results of the more recent 'test' events can't possibly have been analysed yet. And if they have, I don't recall them having been published. So that's not data we have to hand.
I did read somewhere that the post event testing was voluntary after the Liverpool night club event. If it was, that doesn't fill me with any confidence. But I couldn't find anything to confirm it. And, were they using the discredited Lateral Flow tests?
But we still come back to the fact that herd immunity is usually achieved by vaccination, not by mass infection. If it were, we'd be immune to all sorts of things that are currently vaccinated for...
What the scientists who are anti wholesale lifting of restrictions are saying is that this is like a huge experiment being carried out on a mass of people who haven't been asked to give, or have given, their consent. Any scientist surely knows that that is completely unethical? No proposal for a scientific study would be given the go ahead, or funding, if what was proposed was unethical.
I agree with GrannyGravy, I do not think we are poles apart Whitewave. I have changed my position over the last couple of weeks in that I feel it may well be the better part of valour to continue as we are for a while, until all over 18s are fully vaccinated. Plus the ECV younger children who have been advised that medically it is better for them to have the vaccine despite it not yet being licensed for children. My life and the lives of others in my age group are not so very impacted by the current restrictions, but I am concerned for those who need to go out to work and have got to circulate, or those whose jobs are on the line without further opening up. It is such a dilemma, and difficult to know what is best for everyone. There are so many competing needs.
It was the higher level of T Cells in the young that was protecting them. The Johnson varient has found a way to sneak round them. The vacination may only be a partial answer now. Our government has relied on the natural higher number of T Cells in the young and basically ignored them as long as they could protect the elderly and older people to keep them out of the hospitals.
They basically seem to have no real plan, objective or leadership.
No it was the night club in Liverpool (I think) for two nights and the snooker competition.
GrannyGravy13
The test event results were published several weeks ago, there was minimal infections, sorry I cannot recall the exact percentage.
Was that after the Brit Awards in May? I don't think there were any infections and the audience was made up of NHS staff and key workers who were working in the thick of it all.
*was should have been were
The test event results were published several weeks ago, there was minimal infections, sorry I cannot recall the exact percentage.
Greeneyedgirl
Has anyone seen evaluations for these “test events”.? Are “test events” just a convenient cover to keep people happy I wonder?
No I was thinking that the other day.
Has anyone seen evaluations for these “test events”.? Are “test events” just a convenient cover to keep people happy I wonder?
Whitewavemark2
GrannyGravy13
Alegrias1 that is what I posted, Whitewavemark2 disagrees with both of us!
I certainly disagree with your commitment to opening up on 19th.
The Lancet article was not just signed by Independent Sage, their is also an hour long video in which a number of people took part in the discussion., and I am unclear why that makes their advice invalid.
alegrais has not made her opinion known regarding to the 19th unless I’ve missed it.
To be clear what I'm saying;
The main signatories of the letter are the members of Independent SAGE, I'll say again, that doesn't make them wrong, but it doesn't make them right either.
There are 122 (I think) supporting signatures. I googled a few, excluding the ones based overseas.
Elizabeth Stokoe is a British scientist and Professor of Social Interaction at Loughborough University where she studies conversation analysis.
Dr Usama Kadri is an applied mathematician and engineer studying acoustic gravity waves.
This is Dr Julia Patterson: www.everydoctor.org.uk/team
Now I didn't google everybody and I'm sure some of them are experts in the field of epidemiology and microbiology. But not all of them; don't think 122 medical scientists with knowledge in the field have signed this.
As for the online summit, it was an Independent SAGE meeting with a few invited guests....one of them was Phillipa Whitford, an SNP MP and surgeon. I respect her very much, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything she says.
I follow Dr Campbell. He’s very good at interpreting the results but I’ve lost confidence as he is still advocating for VitD and Ivermectin. Follow him by all means, but also follow Tim Spector, @sailorooscout, Speigelhalter….. then think about all the information and draw conclusions from that.
As for the 19th, no comment. I don’t live in England. I live in a nation where we have a Head of Government whose policies you may not agree with, but at least she can communicate with the population effectively about COVID and she doesn’t do things just to be popular and keep her job.
Oops sorry
This Government decided after test events generating minimal numbers of infections to go ahead with the G7, Wimbledon and Euro 2020 the semis and finals at full capacity.
They cannot expect the rest of the U.K. to continue under restrictions after the last few weeks, right or wrong?
I don't think we will be seeing jabs for the under twelves this year anyway. It just isn't that straightforward and there are too many uncertainties.
Whitewavemark2 I do not think we are poles apart.
This Government
maddyone
It would indeed be wonderful if we could happily vaccinate all children from a few months old to 18. But we can’t, it wouldn’t be ethical. It’s a case of fools rush in where angels fear to tread I’m afraid. Other vaccines have been found to be safe for children, and in due course, it may be found that these ones are too. But we don’t yet know.
We can still be patient and wait until all adults are doubly vaccinated, then open up.
Although looking at the television, I can see an almighty spike on the horizon unfortunately,
It would indeed be wonderful if we could happily vaccinate all children from a few months old to 18. But we can’t, it wouldn’t be ethical. It’s a case of fools rush in where angels fear to tread I’m afraid. Other vaccines have been found to be safe for children, and in due course, it may be found that these ones are too. But we don’t yet know.
I never thought I’d say this WWM2 but for once I agree with you.
May I add a sixth idea - those who are anxious might become increasingly concerned after 19th July and therefore less inclined to go out.
Furthermore one in twenty is a non-responder to the vaccines so won’t be protected.
I’d prefer to wait till August and hope Boris delays. I can appreciate that summer is the time to do this, that people have lockdown fatigue, that many have suffered mentally and that the economy needs to reboot but the currently proposed date is premature imo.
I recommend folk to go on YouTube and follow Dr John Campbell. He is a very interesting man. He is discussing this.
I agree GrannyGravy13 and I agree with you too maddyone with regard to the post "you don't appear to care much about teenagers".
Just because not everyone agrees, don't assume that they don't care and don't assume that you care more than someone else.
The Jacks and Jills are OK what a ridiculous statement!!!
I am concerned for all children/teenagers for both their mental and physical health, but hey ho twist people’s posts to suit your own agendas as per normal.
maddyone
Thank God we have responsible pediatricians to oversee the health of our children.
I echo that thought.
Absolutely maddyone, their concerns should be heard.
Thank God we have responsible pediatricians to oversee the health of our children.
There have been 4000 covid admissions to hospital of children and 20 deaths according to this article - it will be more now as the numbers are obviously rocketing in that age group at the moment.
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/doctors-rise-ae-children-admissions-20895092
The chances of long Covid are higher than any known side effects from vaccines.
And you know all the side effects from these vaccines on five year olds? Or ten year olds?
No? I thought not!
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