The decision to end restrictions is dangerous and premature, unethical and illogical.

rosie1959

The bombs may have not stopped falling but the reality is some either don’t give a toss or are prepared to live with this virus and get on with their lives
I am in the middle ground will continue to take sensible precautions but no point in getting het up over what may or may not happen over the next months

You cannot "live with this virus". That is a silly Tory meme. At the very least you will have to "live with" frequent vaccination. You may find that there are other impositions, as you seem to see them, to stop you from dying with this virus.

Perhaps, instead of quoting the idiot at the head of this government, you could explain what "living with this virus" actually means to you. Then you could let us know how many agree with you imposing your "rules" on them.

For every Tweet there is an equal and opposite anti-Tweet.

Why don't you call up Prof Woolhouse and tell him he's not quite right and it is an experiment really, he just doesn't understand that?

And that is a good discussion post? I'm sure your university and your "science" degree would have taught you better Alegrais

The bombs may have not stopped falling but the reality is some either don’t give a toss or are prepared to live with this virus and get on with their lives
I am in the middle ground will continue to take sensible precautions but no point in getting het up over what may or may not happen over the next months

It is good to see what the various scientist are saying. However, we must remember who makes the decisions.

I wouldn't argue with that PippaZ. And that's why I think its counterproductive to just keep getting the one view expressed on here and the pitting of "Johnson" against "The Scientists".

I think the man's a liability, but "The Scientists" aren't all agreed on this either.

MaizieD

^Its not an experiment but its an unprecedented situation because we've got a new pandemic here and the UK is in an interesting position because we have such a successful vaccine program.^

Well, that's just another way of saying that it's an experiment, isn't it?

I don't actually care to be in this 'interesting position' with a lunatic running the country.

I'm also seeing that the Delta version is proving to be a bit resistant to the AZ vaccine twitter.com/GuptaR_lab/status/1416350408344223748

For every Tweet there is an equal and opposite anti-Tweet.

Why don't you call up Prof Woolhouse and tell him he's not quite right and it is an experiment really, he just doesn't understand that?

rosie1959

Caleo how much longer do we need to live under ‘rules’ the majority will use their common sense from Monday and those the don’t probably don’t give a toss about rules anyway

How long did our parents and grandparents have to "live under rules" during the war? I make it six years. When the bombs fell on people's homes, most people ran to the shelter as the rules and laws told them to do. Some didn't. Of those who didn't some individually paid the price. I imagine some of the first responders of their day took some casualties because of their selfishness too.

When the bombs stopped, they stopped going to shelters. The bombs have not yet stopped falling in this crisis.

B Johnson's libertarian policy of leaving public hygiene to individuals' consciences is an example of right -wing optimism about human nature.

REALLY!

Where can one begin to disentangle the irony in this statement?

But the person making the decisions is Johnson, Alegrias and he can have all the opinions of the scientists of all specialisations.

Johnson is, was and probably always will be a high priest of the free market economy. That is where his priority lies. Tens of thousands have already lost their lives because he is compelled by his view of economics and I would guess tens of thousands more will too.

At the beginning of February 2020 when we already knew about the virus he said:

Trade used to grow at roughly double global GDP – from 1987 to 2007. Now it barely keeps pace and global growth is itself anaemic and the decline in global poverty is beginning to slow.

Johnson is a man of another age, another era. One who is as blind to climate change as he is to covid. To keep faith with his fellow extreme free-market economists - a form of capitalism that was already dead - he will allow people to starve, he will allow them to be homeless and he will allow them to die.

It is good to see what the various scientist are saying. However, we must remember who makes the decisions.

Its not an experiment but its an unprecedented situation because we've got a new pandemic here and the UK is in an interesting position because we have such a successful vaccine program.

Well, that's just another way of saying that it's an experiment, isn't it?

I don't actually care to be in this 'interesting position' with a lunatic running the country.

I'm also seeing that the Delta version is proving to be a bit resistant to the AZ vaccine twitter.com/GuptaR_lab/status/1416350408344223748

Rosie1959 that’s been true since the start, but now those who never gave a toss about rules, will have someone to blame for their selfishness.

Caleo how much longer do we need to live under ‘rules’ the majority will use their common sense from Monday and those the don’t probably don’t give a toss about rules anyway

B Johnson's libertarian policy of leaving public hygiene to individuals' consciences is an example of right -wing optimism about human nature.

True, there are many individuals who will continue to observe rules of hygiene, but the realist also knows that many if not most people need to be compelled to observe rules.

Indeed. Both sides. Both opinions valid. Maybe you could provide some names and examples we can look at.

But we don't see much of Prof Woodhouse's view on here, do we? Not nearly scary enough.

And I will up your “actual real epidemeologist” many, many more “actual real epidemiologists” who disagree with Professor Woolhouse, and do indeed see this experiment with herd immunity as dangerous and unethical,

Harris27

I think Boris is thinking we have to start somewhere. And I agree we have to live with this and just be careful as individuals.

I think we have to be careful as individuals too Harris27 but that is not what Johnson has laid out, is it?

I am thankful for this at least Boris Johnson cancelled plans for a Churchillian launch of Freedom Day after No 10 became alarmed by the surge in the number of infections, ...
Here

I just posted this on another thread. The quote is from Prof Woolhouse, who is a scientist. An actual, real epidemiologist. Probably doesn't fall in to the category of "poor scientists" as defined by you PippaZ.

Its widely accepted that the number of cases would increase, we've known this would happen when we unlocked for many months now..., So "dangerous, unethical experiment" seems a very inaccurate description of what's going on.
Its not an experiment but its an unprecedented situation because we've got a new pandemic here and the UK is in an interesting position because we have such a successful vaccine program.

We are still at this present time still under some restrictions yet numbers are going up. The vaccine is obviously working as hospital admissions and deaths are not keeping pace with the amount of infections
We have tried going round this virus without much success so unless we shut down the whole country again we just have to go through it Pandemics do not last forever no matter what intervention is in place

I'm watching him Whitewave. He is putting up a good argument, but what we all know is that Johnson's has insisted that we "must learn to live with the virus". The poor scientists can only do all they can to mitigate the outcome of that.

Of course, we will have to learn to live with the virus. However, we don't have to do it using our children and grandchildren as guinea pigs. The British experiment runs the risk of producing new varients; other countries think we are insane.

I think Boris is thinking we have to start somewhere. And I agree we have to live with this and just be careful as individuals.

maddyone

I will say this, conspiracy theories are absurd, whoever posts them.

Which conspiracy theories? Could you quote what you are objecting to, or do you want this to cease to be a discussion and become just those of us who want to learn and exchange views while you shout at us from the sidelines? Why not join in and discuss?

Jenrick busily spouting crap, trying to explain away Johnson’s special scheme.

maddyone

growstuff, you’d know all about that wouldn’t you! Have a nice evening!

Why are you picking a fight? Is it simply because you can no longer find anything positive to say re the Tory party's handling of Covid? Whatever it is, it is unhelpful if all you want to do is disrupt a thread.

The Astrazneca vaccine doesn’t appear to work with the Beta (South African) virus - only 10% effective. Hence double jabbed are at increased risk of getting Covid.

The Government’s messaging throughout this pandemic has been hopeless.

They are also a pool for potential new variants.

I think part of the truth is that we do not have sufficient appropriate vaccine.

Whitewavemark2

Reuters are reporting that U.K. has decided not to vaccinate teenagers.

They will be used as the pool for herd immunity.

JCVI are recommending only vulnerable teenagers are vaccinated.
They obviously have doubts regarding the risks involved with mass vaccination of under 18’s as opposed to the risks of them
catching Covid.