“I know of no episode in history, where a government has willingly aided and abetted the spread of a dangerous infectious disease amongst its own population”

At the end of the day it is the responsibility of every individual person to make sure they do the right thing. We should not need to have a law telling us what to do, although I understand that with a lot of thoughtless people this is the only way. Common sense has to prevail, we are in unprecedented times and I think we have a rough ride ahead, it isn’t going to go away overnight, we will still be careful and won’t be changing what we have been doing for the last 18 months.

Hope this raises a smile……!

Ultimately it all boils down to one simple fact and that is we have to learn to live with the virus.

Every single country in the world has to learn to live with the virus.

We all know by now, and it’s one thing on which scientists do agree, that Covid-19 will never be completely eradicated, so living with it is simply the only option.

The timing of the relaxing of restrictions has been thought out. Mid summer when schools have broken up, we are outside more and before the upturn of other infections in the autumn, seems a good sensible plan to me.

Then along with the news of vaccine passports being required to encourage more youngsters to have the jab, we should go into autumn and winter in a better position.

“ The OP is about the behaviour of this government, not the opposition. It would be possible for there to be a different Conservative government.”
Spot on. Thatcher would have been far better.

And what exactly do you mean by "living with the virus"? There is more then one way of accepting that it is endemic. What do you mean? If it means not even trying to stop people being seriously ill, I do not accept your definition.

Lucca

“ The OP is about the behaviour of this government, not the opposition. It would be possible for there to be a different Conservative government.”
Spot on. Thatcher would have been far better.

I agree.

I think that Johnson has just given in.

The reasoning behind opening nightclubs now, watching the younger generations clubbing from midnight is puzzling. If double vaccinations and/or negative Covid tests are required from the end of September why is there a free-for-all allowed now?

Ostriches and sand pits comes to mind.

Ashcombe

Hope this raises a smile……!

Ashcombe a wry ? then tears of despair.

The government is being advised by Robert Dingwall, a sociologist with no medical qualifications

So when I point out that certain commentators have no medical or epidemiological experience or qualifications, I'm being superior, but when you do it we all have to listen?

Yes, we have to live with the virus but that doesn't mean absolving government of effective measures to control the spread. These are measures that the government have balked at time and time again.

growstuff

Mollygo

‘I know of no episode in history’
You would if they’d had the Internet back then.

There are plenty of examples of government wanting to kill off enemies, but please could you give an example of a government consciously killing its own people.

Um, Syria?
And countless others

Have we all forgotten because we're so concerned about ourselves?

Quite right Call. I was going to mention countless civil wars, clearances etc, but I was saving that for later ... .

Exaggerating what's going on doesn't help at all.

I can't be the only one who feels it would be safer to go and sit in Jonathan Van Tam's shed with two other people with the door shut all of us having a beer, rather than taking a trip to my local Sainsbury's

Quite right Call. I was going to mention countless civil wars, clearances etc, but I was saving that for later...

Sorry, pre-empted you, but carry on because I have to go out now!!
The list could be quite long.

Alegrias1

Quite right Call. I was going to mention countless civil wars, clearances etc, but I was saving that for later ... .

Exaggerating what's going on doesn't help at all.

Exactly! Countries killed off their enemies (that's what I've already written). Give an example of any democratic country deliberately enabling the deaths of its own citizens.

Callistemon

^Quite right Call. I was going to mention countless civil wars, clearances etc, but I was saving that for later^...

Sorry, pre-empted you, but carry on because I have to go out now!!
The list could be quite long.

I doubt it!

Callistemon

growstuff

Mollygo

‘I know of no episode in history’
You would if they’d had the Internet back then.

There are plenty of examples of government wanting to kill off enemies, but please could you give an example of a government consciously killing its own people.

Um, Syria?
And countless others

Have we all forgotten because we're so concerned about ourselves?

In Syria, the government killed off people it considered to be enemies.

Alegrias1

^The government is being advised by Robert Dingwall, a sociologist with no medical qualifications^

So when I point out that certain commentators have no medical or epidemiological experience or qualifications, I'm being superior, but when you do it we all have to listen?

What are you on about? The government is listening to this man. He's a social scientist and has no medical qualifications. So why are people like you taking any notice of what he says?

I expect people have seen the screen shot of Johnson's message, in which he questions whether Covid is serious.

Oh yes! Let's put this in perspective.

Does anyone actually think we'll ever be free of this? If so, when? And how? Would be interested to hear opinions.

Alegrias1

Lincslass

I would listen to Dr John Campbell, he has a calmer and shows a less pessimistic view from Professor Neil Ferguson. Shall we wait until winter, when it will be inside meetings for all, as well as the Influenza virus join up. Or wait till next year, vaccinations will still be going on throughout this. Even before this”freedom”, many youngsters and men in their 30s were going maskless in supermarkets, with no one to challenge them.

If you want less pessimism listen to Tim Spector.

If you want balance, listen to all of them.

Actually I do listen to Tim Spector, sign in with Zoe daily. I call climate change scientists and mathematicians, although have a right to voice their concerns, not an expert on pandemics. Although sure I will be disagreed with.

Even Tim Spector agrees that long Covid is real.

Robert Dingwall, who has been influential in advising the government, denies that long Covid is a real condition and is on record as claiming that infecting young people is a good thing.

learn to live with the virus is a soundbite that means different things to different people and is therefore largely meaningless.

We have been fed a vocabulary from the start of the pandemic - social distancing, flattening the curve, herd immunity, Covidiot, lockdown, super-spreader, plus all the medical ones.

Those terms all have relatively vague definitions too, so can be used to support different arguments. I very much doubt that this is accidental.

Lincslass

Alegrias1

Lincslass

I would listen to Dr John Campbell, he has a calmer and shows a less pessimistic view from Professor Neil Ferguson. Shall we wait until winter, when it will be inside meetings for all, as well as the Influenza virus join up. Or wait till next year, vaccinations will still be going on throughout this. Even before this”freedom”, many youngsters and men in their 30s were going maskless in supermarkets, with no one to challenge them.

If you want less pessimism listen to Tim Spector.

If you want balance, listen to all of them.

Actually I do listen to Tim Spector, sign in with Zoe daily. I call climate change scientists and mathematicians, although have a right to voice their concerns, not an expert on pandemics. Although sure I will be disagreed with.

I was agreeing with you Linclass. I made a similar comment about mathematicians and climate change scientists a few days ago, so I will definitely not be disagreeing with you there .

We are, I fear, whistling in the wind.

Skydancer

Does anyone actually think we'll ever be free of this? If so, when? And how? Would be interested to hear opinions.

No. I suspect Covid will be around for another ten years or more in various mutations either more or less virulent and more or less dangerous.

I don’t doubt it’s severity but so are many other conditions.

On average, in England and Wales, over 600,000 people die every year. In the week ended 2 July 2021 8808 people deaths were registered - lower than the last five year average of 9293. Of those 8808 most recent deaths, 4585 deaths were people over 80. Add in the 65-80 age group, the total is 7258.

I’m struggling to locate the ONS chart but I believe it was 12% of all deaths recorded from March 2020-May 2021 had Covid noted on the death certificate although Covid may not have been the primary cause. Dementia and heart disease and non-Covid respiratory conditions are still the biggest killers along with cancer.

Today’s numbers. Just under 40,000 new Covid infections. 19 deaths where Covid may not have been the primary cause.

I don’t know the answer to your questions. With a world population of 8 billion, free movement and nations dependent on one another for goods and services the only thing that can stop the spread is by vaccinating 100% of the world population with a vaccine that is 100% effective against currently known and emerging variants … and that’s impossible.