Is it ethical to require a vaccine passport for entry to a club?

I don't get it if I am honest; I have nothing against covid passports for night clubs but why put them in place 2 months after they have reopened - by then who knows what infections have spread?
I struggle to understand most of the things the govt does. There is talk of key workers (including those working with some of society's most vulnerable health-wise) who get "pinged" by the app (which govt ministers cannot agree is mandatory or advisory but given that large numbers of people never installed it in the first place and many of those who did have deleted it I cannot see how it can be mandatory) being able to test and release - but for work only while others have to isolate. I am totally confused.com - to the point I just give up!

MoorlandMooner

Muffinthemoo. I am sorry to hear you've had Covid twice and hope you've made a good recovery.

We agree that evidence shows it is possible for those unvaccinated and those vaccinated to pass on Covid.

I will be honest and face a barrage here.....I have chosen not to have the vaccine. I have my reasons which are nothing to do with facebook conspiracy theories - I don't have facebook.

It's also not because I couldn't be bothered and I have never worn a foil hat - yet! My reason is because I saw my grandmother and mother die of blood clots and, whilst I would much rather not die just yet, if I have to I will take my chance of dying of Covid rather than go through the agony they did.

I will certainly reconsider my decision when it is possible for me to choose the vaccine I am given.

I live in a remote place, with very low Covid rates. I encounter very few people from whom to catch the virus or pass it on. Having read the data I have made a reasoned judgement and will face the consequences.

It might be the wrong decision, but it is my decision. I am not relying on anyone else having the vaccine to protect me. I follow all other guidelines to the letter when I go out, mask, distance, sanitizer. And when I say go out...I mean I walk alone in the hills, swim alone in the sea or go to the supermarket weekly.

If because I don't have a vaccine passport I am unable to go anywhere at all including my nearest supermarket then that is how I will have to live. I'm not sure it is fair as both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can pass on the virus....and perhaps it could be true that a vaccinated person without a mask who goes to the pub or football or clubbing might be more likely to pass on the virus to me at the supermarket, than me them. Still, I will fully accept the decision and live by the rules.

To be called a 'plague bearer' and judged before you know my story is very harsh.

I owe you an apology. I was snippy and took it out on you, which is not acceptable. I have a friend in her mid forties who is having a very high risk pregnancy and is refusing her vaccine - 60% of pregnany women in the UK currently are - because the guidance on whether or not it is safe for mother and baby has abruptly changed. I am scared for her, and was arguing elsewhere on Facebook with our mutual anti-vaxxing friends that if those who COULD safely be vaccinated would go and do it, they would lower the risk for those who can't.

I agree entirely that people should be offered a choice of vaccine, and I understand from NHS contacts that the reason this is not being done is that most people will refuse the AstraZeneca. I hope that this policy will be reversed as the Moderna supplies come online.

I am very sorry for your losses, and again, I apologise.

I was on a FB group listening to BJ live taking abput the passport., I commented that i thought it was a good thing and would encourage the young to get their jab! I was answered with a torrent of abusive comments calling me selfish, a miserable elderly person, a foolish........! The Geneva convention was mentioned ? i guess that the young ones aren't too happy but it did make me laugh!

i understand the reasoning behind it but worry about the logistics. Are clubs going to have enough staff? Are we going to see queues of young potential drunk adults going down the road keeping residents awake whilst the clubs try to view every passport. God help us if its raining. What happens if the phone network goes down or the app doesnt work. So what next? Are we going to have to have flu vaccine passports or certificates to say we dont have novovirus which the news tells us is spreading like wildfire in the community. This is a case of the young likely to infect the young. Yes i know they could bring it into the community or get long covid but so could any vaccinated adult of any age as there is so much we still dont know about the vaccine and the length of immunity. Young care workers are likely to leave the profession in their droves soon when the mandatory vaccination comes in and clubs will close in droves. It doesnt affect most of us but for those who have built up their businesses its devastating. Im on the fence here.

esgt1967

Being vaccinated doesn't mean you aren't infected with the virus so I don't see why just proving you have been vaccinated allows you entry to places over those who haven't - you could have the virus and they might not!

I'm 54 and have had both vaccinations and whilst entering a nightclub again will never happen, I may wish to visit a venue where "Covid passports" will be required in the future. No problem for me obviously but if I happen to be with a friend who isn't vaccinated (for whatever reason), it doesn't seem fair that I am allowed in but he/she isn't - see my earlier comment regarding one or both of us possibly still being infected, regardless of vaccination status.

I feel for the younger generation who are effectively being forced to be vaccinated otherwise they won't be able to enjoy the "normal" things that young people do. Covid isn't the only nasty virus/illness that we can catch from being too close to someone who is infected and, vaccinated or not, we can all still have it.

Some of the comments on this Forum are getting quite nasty, I had hoped that I had found a site that wasn't aggressive and judgemental like others I had been on (we are all entitled to our own opinion) but Gransnet seems to be going down the same road so think I may well not bother looking at it in future.

no it doesn't mean you WON'T be infected, it means you are less likely to be infected and less likely to infect others. Its not the crowd in the nightclub that are at risk, its the people who they are close to in shops, on transport, at home and so on....same with you and your theoretical friend, you are less likely to pass it around than they are.

greenlady102

JaneJudge

I think it is being used so that more people get vaccinated too, maybe I am cynical

Is it ethical the passport seems to require an app?

you can get an official printed copy of your vaccine staus

ohhh can you? ere from?

Paperbackwriter

I'm not sure about this one. I'm very pro-vaccination for older and vulnerable people but Covid doesn't generally harm younger people so why vaccinate if they'll be OK if they get the virus? It might be better for future generations if a lot of people come to get immunity via antibodies rather than vaccines (not sure how clear I'm making myself here - I am not a scientist; it's just a gut feeling!)

its a wrong gut feeling. Unvaccinated people are more likely to get covid badly and more likely to pass it on. Would you say the same about not giving your kids/grandkids MMR?

JaneJudge

I think it is being used so that more people get vaccinated too, maybe I am cynical

Is it ethical the passport seems to require an app?

you can get an official printed copy of your vaccine staus

@ muffinthemoo I completely understand where you’re coming from. Once you’ve been ill with Covid, lost someone to it and seen family members ( in the medical profession) suffer from Long Covid, it affects you deeply.

I agree with Bluecat if you choose not to be vaccinated then you have to accept there will be consequences to that.
For the people who are medically unable to have the vaccine that is more difficult but it would depend on the number of people at the venue.

From the beginning of August we will have to show a certificate to go into a shop, cafe, restaurant. I don't have a problem with this given the current situation. Ethics doesn't come into it. It's just common sense. Since Macrons decree so many French have rushed to get the jab!

I’m 65 and go to a lot of nightclubs but as a working medic, I’d like everyone one to be double vaccinated.

A friend of mine currently has covid. Her son caught it on Euro footfall night. Friend didn't know he'd been out, he's usually very careful. Now the unvaccinated son, his unvaccinated partner, their 18 month baby and my friend all have covid. My friend is clinically vulnerable but IS at least vaccinated.

Ironically, this friend told me in March 2020 that I was neurotic for worrying about covid. Still, I hope she's OK and I'm doing her shopping for her.

I'm with you leeds22

I don't see anything unethical about proof of vaccination being required for entry. It's an individual's choice to refuse vaccination and they have to accept any consequences resulting from that decision, including the inconvenience of being refused entry to venues requiring proof of vaccination.

I agree that it's hard on those who are unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons. I don't know what percentage of non-vaccinated people have genuine medical exemption (e.g. having been advised by a doctor, as compared to deciding for themselves.) I suspect it may be a fairly low figure. The risk of allowing medically exempt people into venues would obviously depend on the numbers involved.

For everyone else, you have to make your own decision and live with it.

Heard on the radio that it will be compulsory for any public venue including cafes, in France imminently because of the speed of increase in cases, so why not here? I’m happy to use one if required although my night clubbing days are over ?

I don't have a phone that does apps very well,so I went on the NHS website,where I was able to request a letter to be sent through the post.This arrived yesterday,it could be useful if I want to travel,or if proof is needed to get into anywhere(not a nightclub at my age) I think it's worth sending for this,for those of us who don't do apps.It doesn't seem to be very widely advertised.

My son went to a nightclub last night and I went to collect him. Whilst he was in his cups he was telling me how he'd forgotten how a lot of the lads and lasses have a tally system of how many people they have had a kissing session with. He was asking how I'd feel if he suddenly brought some stranger back after a night out like some of the lads do. I told him that it would not be acceptable to me and although he was dismissive about having a stranger in the house for security reasons, he was surprised that anybody would want so much intimacy on a first meet after a lot to drink. It got me thanking about Covid transmission rates and how we are all still so vulnerable. He has had Covid and his first vaccination but many of the people he was mixing with "don't believe in the vaccination!" It is all rather worrying and I think it will be too late to lock the stable door in September.

I think it's a heck of a lot more ethical than allowing people to freely infect others. Just as is happening now: why BJ didn't think of this BEFORE he opened everything up makes as much sense as all his other sh*t decisions. Like previous posters have said: stable door/ horses.

There are sufficient proven cases of people who have been twice vaccinated contracting Covid, for it to be nonsensical to have to produce a vaccine passport for entry to anything, including clubs. I believe that the Health Secretary is double-vaxe and he has Covid which he may have passed on to the Prime Minister and Chancellor who are both now isolating. The much-vaunted vaccination was supposed to be our passport to 'freedom' but is proving to be a mixed blessing.

I'm not sure about this one. I'm very pro-vaccination for older and vulnerable people but Covid doesn't generally harm younger people so why vaccinate if they'll be OK if they get the virus? It might be better for future generations if a lot of people come to get immunity via antibodies rather than vaccines (not sure how clear I'm making myself here - I am not a scientist; it's just a gut feeling!)

Most you g people (i.e those who go to nightclubs) carry ID so why should they object to a vaccine passport.?

As young people have so far been less likely to get Covid, they haven't had to think about it. If they now start going clubbing as if nothing has happened and Covid starts to spread amongst them, they may see things differently. I doubt it, but we can live in hope. Just be thankful that us oldies are now protected to a degree.
I read yesterday about trains being jammed full of passengers to a dangerous level.
We have to learn to take responsibility for ourselves. It is so easy to pre-book a seat on a train. It's then the responsibility of train companies to have very limited numbers standing and not in aisles next to people who bothered to book a seat.
Nightclubs never used to be packed to the rafters and we still had the best time but now it's all about money, pack them in, feed them cheap alcohol and to hell with the consequences....

If it pushes young people to get vaccinated it has to be a good thing. Should be required from now, not 1 September.

2 young people brother and sister teenagers met 3 teenage friends at a pub cup final day.
Next day one was positive for Covid
Few days later their 3 friends all positive for covid. Mother of first case and both parents of all 3 friends positive for Covid days later
Teenagers had all had one jab only due to age.
That's 11 positive cases from one crowded pub visit and all have symptoms pcr tests all positive
I know this family as the father is my son's best friend so this is not hearsay.
Yes there should be vaccine passports for pubs and clubs
These crowded places are v high risk atm