Is it ethical to require a vaccine passport for entry to a club?

What I meant about people showing their vaccination status at Wembley was that, from what I’ve heard it didn’t happen. I’m opposed to the government stopping people from protesting peacefully. And I’m opposed to this bill that seems to be being sneaked through parliament that will stop journalists from writing things about the government. But I can’t see how we can live with this virus without the use of a vaccine passport of some kind. It’s just sad that I don’t trust this government with anything they do.

Agreed SpanielNanny.

MayBee70

You mean like everyone had to show one when they went to Wembley the other week?

I don’t know Maybee, because as I’ve said a few times, it wasn’t me who said it was unethical, but the young woman on the Jeremy Vine show, who said it’s unethical, and she was very cross about it.
My own opinion is that it is probably the best thing to do under the circumstances, and for the time being, but as a another poster said, normally informed consent is required before any medical procedure. However these are not normal times, and we all need to accept that Covid has and will impact our behaviours. We will need proof of a double vaccination or a negative PCR test if we want to travel abroad, maybe a negative PCR test should be accepted as well as a vaccine passport for entry into a club.

I wonder if those saying they’re unethical are referring to the fact that patients are required to give Informed Consent before any medical procedure.

One of the main principles of Informed Consent, is that it is given freely and voluntarily, without coercion or pressure from others. It could be argued that by saying to (at the moment, predominately young) people ‘you can’t do XYZ without the vaccine’ you are effectively coercing them into it.

Not necessarily my view, but possibly what people mean by ‘unethical’.

vegansrock

So it’s safe for unvaccinated people to go to nightclubs now, but it won’t be safe on September 1st? Does this make sense?

It’s to give younger people time to have both jabs, so yes, it does make sense. Figures for young people coming forward to have them has dropped off...this may be the encouragement they need.
I don’t think it’s unethical at all, in fact it’s completely ethical if you think about it.
It may not happen though as Labour is determined not to back it.

At Wembley many just took screen shots of someone else’s test results or vaccination certificate. You’d have to double check several forms of ID to make sure it’s the right person. Can’t see that happening.

Our local nightclubs want proof of double vaccination or a negative test taken within the last 48 hours to be admitted. I see nothing wrong with this - its clearly devised to encourage more under 30s to get vaccinated. I do think the app should provide provision for the small number of people who cannot be vaccinated due to allergies or other reasons. A nightclub at any time is a breeding ground for germs - making vaccine status mandatory from September seems sensible to me as it allows time for more under 30s to get double vaccinated.

You mean like everyone had to show one when they went to Wembley the other week?

I thought, correct me if I’m wrong, that all the clubbers shown on the news the other night, who were celebrating clubs reopening, had to show proof of a negative lateral flow test before they were allowed entry.

I will write again to get into Hampton Court Flower Show, hardly a clubbing event I had to show proof of two jabs my 14 year old grandchild show proof of a negative lateral flow test. So no vaccinating children and those who will not or cannot have the vaccine there is your answer.

Social control is stopping people from peaceful protest and planning to prosecute journalists who write articles about the government that may be true but will cause the government embarrassment. Not stopping people from spreading a deadly virus. imo I think this is what Cummings spoke about last night. Get people talking about one particular thing so you can slip through something else far worse.

M0nica

What has ethics got to do with it? Did she say? what ethic did she have in mind?

I think it’s the implied coercion. It is compelling people to have the vaccine in order to participate in various activities. In this country, all clinical procedures have always required informed consent. It is part of the Nuremberg code, developed to prevent the sort of medical experimentation that happened in Nazi Germany. Once you remove the safeguard that people have the right to freely consent to (or decline) a medical procedure, you are in very dangerous ethical territory.

Just been scrolling through bits and bobs and I hadn’t noticed that it’s now mandatory for Health Care staff in care homes to be fully vaccinated for Covid-19.

Seconded MoorlandMooner. I agree, let us know what you decide

You're welcome MoorlandMooner. Do let us know if you decide to go ahead.

It is wholly unethical and a form of social control. This is like living in a communist country. Also what happens if you lose your vaccine proof. I have lost the vaccine card for my first jab.

Maddyone, thank you so much for your thoughtful and supportive post.

Alegrias1, I'm so sorry you were so poorly and are left with impaired health. That was such a kind post and thank you for sharing your story which is very relevant and helpful.

You've both encouraged me to speak to my GP. I'm very grateful to you. I'd expected a barrage of criticism and instead I received help and support.

Donnab31, Thank you!!

Muffinthemoo, Apology totally accepted. I can understand entirely why you feel so strongly So very kind of you to write such a lovely post. I do hope your friend and her baby stay safe....you sound like a very good friend to her.

I'm guessing here so please don't shout me if I'm wrong but I would imagine that for those people who "genuinely can't have the vaccine for medical reasons" should be able to get some type of exemption certificate.

I have a blue badge which proves my disability when I'm parking my car in a disabled parking space, surely something similar (electronic and linked to the NHS covid vaccine passport system) should be made available.

If we cast our mind back a few decades, it was mooted by the government at the time that National ID cards would be a way (what way?) forward. I remember reading an impassioned rebuttal of any such notion by a rather right wing journalist, one Boris Johnson in another incarnation. It rather impressed me as I am very suspicious of such state control. That is why I am somewhat sceptical about the current debate. Seems a sensible idea, but just where might it lead?

My gs works part-time as a bouncer. He is on the door and has to check everyone for drugs so it would be quite easy to check a passport and I agree with it.

WoodLane7

I don't get it if I am honest; I have nothing against covid passports for night clubs but why put them in place 2 months after they have reopened - by then who knows what infections have spread?
I struggle to understand most of the things the govt does. There is talk of key workers (including those working with some of society's most vulnerable health-wise) who get "pinged" by the app (which govt ministers cannot agree is mandatory or advisory but given that large numbers of people never installed it in the first place and many of those who did have deleted it I cannot see how it can be mandatory) being able to test and release - but for work only while others have to isolate. I am totally confused.com - to the point I just give up!

Because they are trying to be reasonable. By the end of september its expected that all over 18's and some who are younger will have been offered two vaccinations. This means that no one except those who are medically advised not to be vaccinated will be excluded from stuff. Those who have been medically advised not to be vaccinated probabaly shouldn't be in crowded indoor spaces anyway.

No it's not ethical in any way. Its the first step in creating a two tier society. It's also another way for the government to introduce ID cards without having to go through parliament to do it, that's probably why they are aiming it at pubs and clubs, so they make all 18+ have ID cards.

Sorry MoorlandMooner - I missed your post.
I'm sorry to hear of your losses.
I think fear has driven so many people to judge others without really considering they may have strong reasons for refusing the vaccine.

One point I've not seen anyone discuss here is the side effects of the jabs and how this is deeply concerning for young people.

I'm double jabbed because my surgery told me I was high risk due to blood clots. Ironic then that the next day it was all over the news that AZ can cause blood clots!
I personally know a 42 year old whose leg went black and blue within hours of his second AZ jab because he developed clots and a woman in her 30's in hospital after 3 strokes caused by the jab.
They are now widely reporting changes to womens periods and false symptoms of cervical cancer as side effects.
Please bear all this in mind before judging young people who are possibly terrified of putting their health at risk. They're not all being selfish!

With regards to vaccinating healthy children against covid, I think this is extremely selfish of adults.
Healthy children have almost zero chance of becoming seriously ill from covid but I've heard so many people say they want the children vaccinated to protect adults.
Will they soon stop children attending school/play centres/parks if their parents won't allow them to have the vaccine?

We really need to start looking at the bigger picture here because it won't end with nightclubs and this governments handling of the whole covid situation has been a complete sh@t show!

I should have added I guess - will it really matter because I think that by the end of Sept we will be back in lockdown again. I sincerely hope I am wrong but fear I will be proved right