Is it just me who is terrified of the way this country and the whole world is turning out

I am making no apology for my views on this. No valid reason given, medical, religious or other. I’d say pretty much everyone is sick of hearing or thinking about Covid …all the more reason to do what we can to control it, rather than pretending it is not serious.

I'm sorry you are so stressed about Covid Itsawelshthing there are a lot of others who have similar concerns. Please talk to people who can support you, family, friends, support groups. Don't let this take over your life, you have made your decision now you need to move forward. I wish you well.

Itsawelshthing I’m sorry you’ve had the responses you’ve had. I’m afraid you won’t get much sympathy with your views on gransnet as most discussions around the vaccine end up this way. You have every right to your views, and every right to refuse a vaccine or any other medical intervention. You are acting responsibly using PPE and undergoing regular testing, and also by seeking alternative employment. And of course, if you are unlucky enough to contract Covid you have every right to have treatment and to be admitted to hospital if necessary. Just as those very unfortunate few young people who have a severe adverse side effect of the vaccine have every right to also be treated. I share your distress at the horrible divide this whole situation is bringing about, with such hostility towards others who express a different opinion. Even though I know this is caused by fear, it is not helpful and only makes a bad situation worse.

I wish you well and hope you find some peace. Please carry on trying to get some support with your mental health. These are difficult times indeed, and kindness can go a long way.

I’m really not clear why it is such a big deal to go and be vaccinated if you are involved in health care. It is not just for Covid but for other things like flu and if you work n those situations that is what is expected. Always has been , certainly here in Australia. Not worth getting het up over, just do it.

Itsawelshthing

I understand what you are all saying but I still think it is wrong to mandate vaccines. I've no idea why my post has been reported for?

I would agree that it’s wrong to mandate vaccines for the general population. However you work with a vulnerable section of society. You work there by choice and you chose to go into that profession. Surely you understand that the people you are working with need to be protected?

Mandated vaccines for health care workers is nothing new.

Don’t want the vaccine? Time for a new profession

Mental health services are stretched. I'm not in Wales but have seen a lot of support and acknowledgement of the mental health impacts where I am. Please make an appointment with your GP for a chat. Maybe they will have some ideas for you?

I've alrwady decided that if the vaccine becomes compulsory in Wales then I would unfortunately resign from my position in the healthcare sector. I am already trying to find another job outside the healthcare sector but it is very difficult at the moment and no doubt they'll probably require me to be vaccinated as well. The only way it can happen is if they literally pin me down and do it against my will.

Sorry again that I've posted on here about not having the vaccine and my reasons for it etc, maybe a lot of people do think I am selfish and nobody wants to be near me or get ill and I accept if that's how people think of me. As I said I don't go near anyone any way and at work I am fully PPE'd and get tested regularly and ensure I wash my hands and don't go shopping unnecessarily.

I am not ashamed to admit that I am on the verge of having a mental breakdown, I can't cope with all of this any longer I just don't have any energy to go on and be happy about anything because wherever I am, it's all covid covid and bloody covid. No mention about how badly all of this is affecting people mental health wise.

I think losing my job or not having a job is going to really finish me off. I just don't know what to do or think anymore. I've tried talking to mental health charities but getting nowhere because I suppose they're already inundated. I am trying my best to just plod on but I will leave this thread now as I don't want to cause any more issues than I already have.

Just wanted to see if there was literally anyone at all who could be in the same boat as me and maybe wanted to discuss it but clearly I am the only one, bar 1 or 2. Never mind. I hope everyone has had a nice day and evening and hopefully the weather is good tomorrow because I've got a ton of weed to pull out and also need to mow the lawn x

I do not think the OP is spreading vaccination misinformation. She was saying how she felt and the thought process she went through to reach that decision, which was why I posted, what I hoped was a clear list of the fallacies her doubts are based on.

Although I do not share her thoughts on the vaccine I do understand her doomladen thoughts. I think most of us have been prone to such thoughts at times during the last 18 months, but most of us have had these thoughts on bad days and perked up a few days later.

I was born during WW2 and before D Day, at a time when the country did not know whether we would be defeated by the Germans and face all the horrors of a Nazi dictatorship or not. Many people probably has similar thoughts then, but we came through.

In my childhood and youth we faced a whole run of threatening and dangerous moments when we stood in fear of nearly immediate nuclear destruction. The blockade of Berlin in 1948/9, The Bay of Pigs standoff in 1961.

Indeed throughout the Cold War (1947-1991), which roughly covers the first 50 years of my life, we had the fear of nuclear war being possible at any moment hanging over us. The threat was real, you have only to visit some of the buildings, dugouts, command centres etc built then to know how real and immediate the threat was and how seriously the government in Britain -and the US took the threat.

Many people then felt then as you, itsawelshthing, but we came through and I think the same is so now, I do not think we are heading into a period of total control and domination.

Vaccination being compulsory for people working in professions where they are coming in contact with sick and vulnerable people, is not a sign of that control.

I believe there are already many professions where members are expected to be vaccinated against hepatitis. It is voluntary, but the pressure is strong, but in this case, if they get the disease they only endanger themsel and probably shorten their own lives, with COVID you endanger others.

If I am ill and need care, I do not want anyone whose vaccinations are not up to date caring for me. If you were caring for me and gave me COVID and I died, would you be prepared to face my family and explain to them why your objections to the vaccine had killed their family member? Because at the end of the day that is what it boils down to.

You are free, if your principles are deep to refuse the vaccine, but you must accept that that means that you should not work with people vulnerable to the disease. If you are principled enough to refuse the vaccine, you should be principled enough to see that you could be a threat to others and not want to hurt them.

OP: "As for knowing people who had covid, I know loads of them, including one of my friends family member who unfortunately has a compromised immune system with other array of illnesses and she was fine and recovered with no issues, the rest had a little temperature and had a headache but they all said if they could go to work, they would."

If I am reading this correctly, you are saying you know people who had Covid but, knowing they were ill, would still go to work because their symptoms were mild? If I wasn't convinced before, I am now. This is why we need people working with vulnerable people vaccinated.

OP, please talk to your doctor or health professional about all your concerns. You sound like you might be depressed and that can make everything seem worse than it would otherwise.

Itsawelshthing

Gwyneth

You said that you have read all replies itsawelshthing but you didn’t actually answer my question. Would you choose to accept treatment from the NHS if you contacted Covid as a result of exercising your right not to be vaccinated.

Sorry I must've missed this and yes I would choose treatment because like everyone else, I pay my NI and I have a right to get treatment just like everyone else, vaccinated or not.

And the reason I don't want the vaccination is because 1) I am not vulnerable and I consider myself fit and healthy so I don't need it personally and 2) it is still under clinical trial until 2023. Vaccines take 10 to 20 years to develop, but this one took just 1 year.

Hi again,

Actually, healthcare is not linked to National Health treatment. I used to feel "I've paid my stamp" about it.

It was only a very few years ago that I found out it is not.

It is a very widespread misunderstanding. The reason for that in my opinion is because the media brings out the 1944 film about the plan for the future, with Mr Beveridge saying about a stamp.

BUT when the postwar Labour government brought in the NHS they made the political decision at that time not to have the NHS as part of the National Insurance scheme, but to fund it from general taxation.

That makes sense, because the basis of the National Insurance system is benefit for having paid for a stamp or had them credited if out of work or sick, but if there are not sufficient contributions, then there is means testing on getting the benefit, typically money.

So if the NHS had been linked to the National Insurance system then the question could have arisen of means testing people over medical treatment. So the NHS is free at the point of need with no means testing. The cost is from general taxation, so some people pay lots and some people pay nothing. Though it is very hard to pay nothing because although someone who has low earnings pays no income tax, and some food has no VAT charged, things such as toilet rolls have VAT charged as do many other things, including vet care and medicines for pets.

May I suggest that you consider asking the nursing Sister at the GP practice with which you are registered to have a chat about everything? I have found talking to a Sister extremely helpful. It could be face to face or over the telephone, maybe more than one chat. I have found that blurting it all out is very relieving, This was all before COVID, so nothing to do with COVID. I felt a bit embarrassed doing so, a bit silly, but the Sister was very good about it all. She checked things out. It is good to let it out, hopefully letting it out here helps, but we are not experts, just people who were born many years before you, just like that the people who were caught up in The Great War were just people who were born before us, and so back through time and other things that happened.

It is just that we were all once young like you are now, we have been teenagers too. We and you can look back at being teenagers. You are experiencing being in your twenties, we have all done that, most of us long ago, and talk of things like the long hot summer of 1976, which was long before you were born.

Another thing, back in my twenties I had to have a tooth extracted and I was terrified. Underlying it was because when I was about ten I had to have a tooth out and was due to have an extraction under gas in a few weeks time at the hospital, however I had a very bad painful night one night so my mother rang a dentist the next day to try to get it done. No NHS appointments left, but could be done privately, so she paid because I was in agony. The extraction was extremely painful. It was traumatic.

So in my twenties I was very fearful. I did not say.

The dentist said he could not take it out as there was an absys and the anaesthetic would not work, so issued a prescription for penicillin, and said for me to come back in a week for the extraction.

I was still very worried and anxious, fearing that the anaesthethic would not work. Sat in the chair I calmly said "Can I ask you something?". I wondered how he would react, in fact he listened and was good about my fears and I asked if before he pulled it out, could he check it by poking it with a pointed thing or something. He did that. He held up the pointed instrument, there was blood on it. I had felt nothing. With that I relaxed and he extracted the tooth.

Ever since, I have always blurted that out to a succession of dentists, all have been very kind about it, nobody has told me not to be silly or anything like that. They all do the preliminary poke for me. I know that it may well have been an absys under the tooth and the anaesthetic had not worked and so on, but a thing like that, well for me, nevertheless, deep down I still fear that the anaesthetic is not going to have worked and need the reassurance of the preliminary poke.

I also reported the original post because it is spreading vaccination misinformation and conspiracy theories. GNHQ clearly didn’t think this was a good enough reason to remove the thread.

10:27Jaxjacky why have you reported this? It's a discussion, with different people airing different views. You shouldn't want to shut a discussion down because someone has said something you disagree with.

Please don't say that you don't see a future it'sawelshthing.

I would urge you to talk to someone you trust, perhaps a family member, your GP or someone in HR at work. There is a lot going on in your original post and I'm sure talking it through with someone in real life will help you see the best way forward for you.

Some of the people replying to you on here are upset about the Covid/vaccine situation generally and you are getting the brunt of that. Please don't take it personally but seek help from people who can focus on your situation and discuss things properly. All will be well I'm sure. Have hope, stay positive.

i feel so sorry for you, i have had a needle phobia since i was a child, it is so bad that i only had one child because 35 years ago they wanted a blood test before i left hospital. i had both my vaccines, not just because i was scared of getting covid but because i did not want to risk other people, my family, friends and the doctors and nurses who have been treating me over the last 3 years and now the healthcare workers who will be treating me again as i have cancer again. i have a friend whos daughter has had to give up nursing as she won't have the vaccine, she has applied for loads of jobs in the past few weeks and all of them ask, have you had the covid vaccine, her mother has told her she will have trouble getting a job, no employers will tell you that is why you don't get the job as that is probably not legal, you might find you are on your own and as time goes on you might find it more difficult to get a job.

Good post * Monica* Let's hope the OP reads it and learns from it.

I am almost 30 years old, I have no health conditions, I eat a healthy diet and keep very fit. I have made an informed choice by myself that I do not want to have the vaccine, based on my research but also because I really don't need it. The vaccine does not stop transmission or catching the virus so what's the point me having an experimental vaccine for? I am feeling very on edge about all of this.

Let me list all the fallacies in the above para.

1) You are 30, fit and healthy and unvaccinated( unspoken, so I will be alright even if I do get the virus). So you match the profile of those now being admitted to hospital with severe COVID. One of the papers yesterday, I think,, Guardian or i had an in depth analysis of those in hospital and dying. Nearly all were under 40, fit and healthy and severely ill and dying. One young person's last words were, ' I wish I had had the vaccine'. It would be laughable if it was not so tragic, for the victim, their family and friends.

2) The vaccine does not stop transmission or catching the virus.
Wrong again. The vaccine does do both but no vaccine is 100% effective and a few people may transmit the disease and a few may get the disease, but it is unlikely to be anything but mild. Just look at the statistics for older people, over 60s fully vaccinated. Compare the proportion getting the disease, beng hospitalised and dying and see how low the number is now compared with younger age groups, then look at the same figures for last year, when 90% of those in hospital and dying were over 60. Something is happening to cause the change. If not the vaccination, what your explanation?

3) The vaccine is experimental. No it isn't. It was fully tested before it was released to the public. My DH was part of the testing procedure and remains part of it. (77, overweight, had heart bypass surgery and just had this year's booster jab, and continues in good health). By now, I think 100 million people round the world have had one vaccine or other, there have been a few problems, but the same applies to all the childhood vaccinations and every other vaccination available. The COVID vaccination is far more effective than the flu jab and that too has side effects.

You are entirely free to decide whether or not you want the vaccine but have the courage to face up to what is actually happening based on articles and evidence, peer reviewed and published by accredited scientists. Do not take the cowards way, as you are at present, relying on unsubstantiated evidence and hearsay to justify your decision

Look the supported accredited evidence in the face with your head held high and say. Despite this evidence I still do not want the vaccine, then people might respect your decision, however misguided.

My young neigbour's freedom and rights are being unfairly limited. He refuses to have driving lessons and to take his licence- but he constantly complains he is not allowed to drive the car his parents have bought for him.

All I keep telling myself is that if/when we finally get ahead of the virus, and can sustain it without opening everything up then these issues will be easier to deal with.

You have a right to refuse the vaccine but, as stated by others, the people you care for in your job also have a right to be protected and to be informed. It would be prudent, if you are determined not to get the vaccine, to seek a new position. Of course you should be treated by the NHS if you become ill with Covid. It is an obligation on their part. Everyone has that right even if they are a convicted criminal. You are young and situations like this are scary and can cause you to lose hope. Most of us on here have lived through hard times when life seemed bleak but there is also hope of it becoming better and that can happen quite quickly. I came through the mid forties and fifties and suddenly we had the sixties which opened up a whole new world. I tell my grandchildren, who like you, get depressed that they are not as free as they were pre-covid, that life can change on the spin of a coin. And it will.

And yes I agree galaxy and missadventure the situation and ethics are complex.

Sorry, itswelshthing.
I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Galaxy no I don’t think people can be forcibly vaccinated but I think everything possible should be done to make them realise not only the risks to themselves but also the risks to the dedicated staff who are caring for them. Maybe using a scenario such as who do you think will be able to care for your needs if staff are infected with covid and can’t come to work. Or how would you feel if a member of staff is hospitalised as a result of people refusing to be vaccinated.

MissAdventure

I'm not looking for a round of applause, but people's opinions on whether it's ethical for people who need help with very close personal care to decline the vaccine.

I support their right to refuse, but don't relish the idea of catching covid and possibly passing it on to others.

Totally agree that this is a very difficult question. If they need help that puts others at risk due to close proximity, body fluids, etc. then carers should have the choice to work with them or not. Ethically a very tough question, you have my total sympathy.

I said in the beginning that the consent issue is huge, and far reaching.
It has taken years to get to the point of allowing certain people a choice in matters.
Is it ethical to now withdraw it?

Sorry that was to Gwyneth .