Is it just me who is terrified of the way this country and the whole world is turning out

And how will that work, are you suggesting patients are forcibly vaccinated. People need to think about the ethics of this. It's actually quite complicated.

So, should care be refused to people who won't have the vaccine?
It has to work both ways.
I shouldn't be putting people at risk, and they (perhaps) owe me the same consideration.
Whether they are elderly, or frail, or live with a learning disability, they're still people who are (perhaps) being very selfish.

I know quite a few people now who have had covid. A 32 year old friend died. Father of one, wife was 4 months pregnant with their second. My brother, younger than me. A friend, late 30s. Both now have long covid, unable to go back to work.

You're gambling with your life.

I have worded my last post badly just to clarify. Patients except for medical reasons should be vaccinated so as to not put those who care for them at risk of covid.

Icke is a holocaust denier. If THAT is the calibre of people you chose to follow for your social/emotional health, I think you have a LOT more to worry about than just your vaccine refusal.

ALL vaccines have some risk attached. Historically, the first ones were very risky. BUT look how far medical science has come. I'd much rather be trying out a covid vaccine today than trying a smallpox variolation 300 years ago.

As I am SURE you know, you are much more at risk from covid than from the vaccine. And you are a BIG risk to the people you care for. I honestly think if you are not going to get the vaccine, you should find another job, where your choice poses less risk to a very vulnerable group of people.

I'm not sure how I feel, apart from uneasy about it all.
The declining of the vaccine, the idea of making people have it - the whole conundrum.

MissAdventure I feel very strongly that everyone exempting medical reasons should be vaccinated. I do not think it is right that anyone working in the health service who has close contact with patients and is responsible for their personal care, including those in a care home, should be allowed to put the health of those who care for them and their families at risk.

As for knowing people who had covid, I know loads of them, including one of my friends family member who unfortunately has a compromised immune system with other array of illnesses and she was fine and recovered with no issues, the rest had a little temperature and had a headache but they all said if they could go to work, they would.

But Itsawelshthing you say in an earlier post, that the only socialising you do is with your family.

Thank goodness one of those you do know, wasn’t one of the 1000s who’ve been in a ICU on a ventilator or anyone suffering with long COVID?

I personally think we should do all we can to keep everyone safe and create less pressure on the NHS.

I'm not looking for a round of applause, but people's opinions on whether it's ethical for people who need help with very close personal care to decline the vaccine.

I support their right to refuse, but don't relish the idea of catching covid and possibly passing it on to others.

MissAdventure that’s a difficult situation to be in and it’s one that hospital staff have been experiencing for a while. I’m glad you’ve had the vaccine. Stay safe.

Well done

My point is that some of the people I care for in my role as a carer have declined the vaccine.
I've had mine.

MissAdventure

How about caring for people who choose not to have the vaccine?
That's my current position.

And I get that- but it has been explained. No vaccination programme can be sucessful without a significant take up, 70% 1 and more.

So yes, do care, listen try to explain with facts- but at the end of the day, those who refuse put us all at risk, and vulnerable people even more. So it is fair to say they are being very selfish - this even more if they have taken the huge responsibility of professionally caring for the elderly and frail.

The answer to the OP's question is "no"

Sadly she is not the only person who thinks this way. which might be one of the reasons that it will be very difficult for us to defeat the virus.

The OP did not say anything racist, so your report was irrelevant.

How about caring for people who choose not to have the vaccine?
That's my current position.

The vaccine underwent all the usual testing only accelerated due to removing all the usual barriers to getting things done. Read about it. Those who developed the Oxford one have written a book about it. Read it,
“I don’t need it”. how selfish.

Agree with everything Maw said.

They don't HAVE to take 10 - 20 years to develop. They usually take that long because there are delays while officialdom gets round to signing off each stage in the procedure, and while the manufacturers raise the money for the next stage. In an emergency, with all the stops pulled out. things move much fastr than normal.

The developers of the Oxford Zeneca vaccine had a blog post in April 2020 at covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/blog-how-long-will-it-take-get-oxford-vaccine-deployment where their estimate is that 12 months could be enough. They said:-

"Experts have estimated that it will take 12-18 months to develop a new vaccine at high speed. Under normal circumstances, most vaccine development programmes take more than five years, so this is still a considerably accelerated timescale.

This 12-18-month prediction includes the time taken to develop manufacturing processes to produce the vaccine on a larger scale, as well as preclinical testing in animals and evaluation of the vaccine in human participants in a clinical trial. Scientists need to assess the safety and efficacy of the vaccine over a number of weeks and months through phase I, II and III clinical trials. If the vaccine is safe and efficacious, regulatory approval is needed before the vaccine can be deployed.

. Many of these stages can be undertaken more quickly if there are no unexpected roadblocks. Firstly, the use of a platform technology approach, i.e. a vaccine delivery system that has been used before and can be adapted for a new pathogen, can shorten the initial vaccine development time. Also, in an emergency situation, large scale manufacturing could be carried out concurrently while the clinical trial is ongoing, which can shorten the overall timescale for vaccine development. This would mean that if the clinical trial is successful, the vaccine would be ready in larger quantities, to be deployed immediately. Finally, regulatory review of promising candidates is also undertaken faster in an epidemic, because more staff and resources are dedicated to the review process. .

Oxford University is using all these strategies in order to try to make a vaccine available as rapidly as possible once it is proven safe and effective. "

If you refuse to be vaccinated itsawelshthing then you must find another job. It would be utterly immoral for a vaccine refuser to continue to work in social care putting vulnerable people at risk.

Feel the same as you MawBe

Well if that is your decision itsawelshthing go with it, but stop bleating about your fear and the way the world is turning out , about conspiracies about coercion and control by government or other factions. Your choice, your consequences.
If I had an elderly relative in a care home or visiting carers I would sure as hell want their carers to be vaccinated.
You have the right to choose, the vulnerable people you claim to care for have no such choice, so I would support to the hilt any decision by the government or by care home owners to insist on vaccination except where there is a valid medical reason against it and in those cases, you can forget weekly testing, I would want to see daily testing.

Itsawelshthing why 2023? I don’t understand? Thanks.

Gwyneth

You said that you have read all replies itsawelshthing but you didn’t actually answer my question. Would you choose to accept treatment from the NHS if you contacted Covid as a result of exercising your right not to be vaccinated.

Sorry I must've missed this and yes I would choose treatment because like everyone else, I pay my NI and I have a right to get treatment just like everyone else, vaccinated or not.

And the reason I don't want the vaccination is because 1) I am not vulnerable and I consider myself fit and healthy so I don't need it personally and 2) it is still under clinical trial until 2023. Vaccines take 10 to 20 years to develop, but this one took just 1 year.

And I don’t know the answer to just why OP doesn’t want the vaccine

You said that you have read all replies itsawelshthing but you didn’t actually answer my question. Would you choose to accept treatment from the NHS if you contacted Covid as a result of exercising your right not to be vaccinated.