The whole of New South Wales is now in lockdown

Callistemon please find attached data that updates each month to show the departures and arrivals in Australia.

I am the director of a company in Australia, my cousin is the director of a company in the Uk. I can easily organise a meeting with him to obtain a permit to fly in and out of Australia as long as I pay the airfare to fly each way first class - then I jump over the economy class passengers in the queue. It’s considered essential international travel for business. Oh and once out easily pop over to Europe for a quick holiday - I’ve got dual citizenship so just use my other passport for my jaunt.

The rules are - If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online but you must meet at least one of the following:

•your travel is for your business/employer

And you just need to show

•letter from your employer, or other evidence that you are travelling for a business reason

As a side note you can also leave Australia if you can prove your leaving for 3 month or more - just in time to have a European summer or to enjoy the ski season in the Alps.

The sick relative rule - they are normal everyday people trying to arrive - not company directors, not celebrities, not media executives, not politicians - why would compassionate reasons be enough - really, do you expect compassion to beat money and power - the world doesn’t work like that unfortunately but I wish it would. It’s one rule for the rich.

I have not used any of these loopholes, I have a heart and a conscience but as a member of the business community am well aware of them.

These loopholes have been brought up in the more independent media here but doesn’t rate much of a mention in the mainstream media - I presume those in power and money don’t want their cushy loopholes quashed or to have the “commoners” outraged.

www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-transport/overseas-arrivals-and-departures-australia/latest-release

Also for permit rules-

covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia

As a matter of interest the attached photo indicates the lockdowns in Melbourne since this started. Even when not in lockdown we have still had many restrictions in place.

We can compare lockdowns in different countries until the cows come home but each country puts in place - hopefully - the best restrictions for their circumstances. What is right for one will not work in another for many reasons. Had different people been in "power" no doubt they would have done things differently. Would any of us have been better off? No one knows for sure.

The worst thing about our situation is the loss of businesses. My son runs his own small business and was just getting to earn an income after 4 years when this hit. He has managed to stay afloat without any government support but his customers are now at the stage they are unable to continue so he too is likely to fold.

Callistemon
^I have it on excellent authority that travel restrictions are such that even if a family member dies in the UK, an exemption to leave is difficult to obtain.
The same if a family member in the UK is extremely ill - exemptions take so long or are refused so I really don't know how some people can obtain them for meetings overseas.
And the converse is true for Australians going back home to visit dying family members.^

I think this is largely correct and in fact it's not just international people affected. There have been many cases of this between the States. In the UK there is one government who makes the rules for all. Here we have individual rules for each State or Territory (8 in all) as well as the Federal Government. There is no consistency. You cannot say such and such happens in Australia because it is probably only happening in a part of Australia - this goes for our laws in normal times too.

One of the things that has annoyed many here throughout the whole time is the exemptions for some but not others. The football and other sports can continue and the players and staff and families travel all over the country albeit with conditions, however, someone who is trying to scrape out a living by mowing lawns is not allowed to work. Or someone is not allowed to travel to another state to be with a sick or dying relative.

So many experts on here.

It wouldn't be so bad here if people did the right thing. Demonstrations, parties, family gatherings, not understanding the rules, and so on. It's frustrating for us all.

It's also a bit of a myth that people are not allowed in to Australia.
“It turns out the only thing that’s required to get a permit from the federal government to leave the country is proof you have a meeting in another country

Perhaps if you're a politician, a sports or film star.

I have it on excellent authority that travel restrictions are such that even if a family member dies in the UK, an exemption to leave is difficult to obtain.
The same if a family member in the UK is extremely ill - exemptions take so long or are refused so I really don't know how some people can obtain them for meetings overseas.
And the converse is true for Australians going back home to visit dying family members.

Callistemon

^;Your hospitality industry must be on its knees^.

As is the whole of the tourism industry, as overseas visitors have not been allowed in (unless sports or film stars), overseas students are banned so teachers have lost their jobs, there are no casual farm workers and backpackers who normally spend time doing farm work etc etc.

It is not only the hospitality and tourism that are on their feet. Small business have been decimated in so many cases and those who are sole traders have had no government support throughout the whole time. Not sure why they don't qualify but they have done it hard. It's also a bit of a myth that people are not allowed in to Australia.

This report was from late 2020 and it may not be relevant today but it does IMO show that our borders were/are not as closed as many think.

“ABS data, the Federal Government’s own data, confirms that thousands of people are being allowed to travel here who are not stranded Aussies. These are not Australian citizens or permanent residents. But every week 600 UK citizens arrive in Australia. 500 Chinese citizens. More than 300 Indonesians. More than 250 people from the United States. More than 200 people from the Philippines. 115 people from South Africa.”

“In addition to the non-Australians returning, every month about 40,000 Australian citizens and about 6,000 permanent visa holders are allowed to leave the country. Many of them return … Rejoining the queue, going back through hotel quarantine and putting our community at risk.”

“It turns out the only thing that’s required to get a permit from the federal government to leave the country is proof you have a meeting in another country,”

You’re right Pippa about the southern states in America. There’s a lot of vaccine hesitancy there, but at least your niece, and hopefully the rest of your family, are vaccinated. Our American friends were vaccinated before us, in January I think. They live in Vegas and were very keen to get vaccinated, but my husband’s cousin who lives there doesn’t want to get vaccinated. I can’t imagine why, except she’s a member of the Mormon church.

Ahh, thank you Pippa. What a situation this is for everyone the world over.

maddyone

Oh Pippa I do hope you get to see your son again, which I’m sure you will at some point, maybe even as soon as early next year. Maybe I over egged the pudding, I just had the impression from what’s reported and from a poster on Gransnet who lives in Australia, that things were very bad, especially re the number of people taking up the offer of a vaccine. I hope they will have vaccinated the 80% by December because in particular, I know there are a great many Gransnetters who have adult children living in Australia including yourself, and I know they’re desperately hoping to be able to see their children soon.
You’re probably aware that my daughter and her family recently moved to New Zealand which has only vaccinated 17% of its eligible population which I find very worrying, not least because our dear little three year old keeps saying ‘I want to touch you’ when he’s on FaceTime with us, and he stretches out his little hand as if the screen could let him touch us. I’m hoping NZ will open up a bit after Christmas too (and with mother in a care home now) we could visit them then. But if they don’t get on with their vaccination programme it won’t happen. Fingers crossed for us all.

I'm sure New Zealand will catch up Maddyone and at the moment it is a very safe place for them to be, or as safe, if not safer than our country.

My GCs are older and so more aware of technology than I am. My GD is 13 so old enough to get in touch herself when she has news to share, and GS will soon be there. Yours will soon get the hang of it.

I worried more about the other third of my family in America - particularly my niece in Alabama as there seems to more vacine hesitency there, but they are now all vacinated.

I know it's easier for me as I have spent a great deal of my life moving round the world and being away from various bits of family. I've found there is always a plus side - for all of us - so my advice is keep smiling and looking forward.

Australia does seem to be rather behind us and not had the severe lockdowns we had in the beginning. Our relatives in Perth have only had a few week long lockdowns again not as severe as ours. I do wonder if it will spread further and involve everywhere eventually. It must be difficult to keep the borders of states shut for such long periods. Seems never ending and precautions now a matter of course. DSil had 4 friends round for evening and DD1 had the hand gel/disinfectant out. DSiL was surprised that everyone used it without being asked and throughout the evening. It makes me sad (and proud) that DGC use the hand gel automatically when they enter shops and other places and in the car if we are driving "cream Granny cream!" from 3yo if I forget. I'm glad we are still wearing masks just now though and might continue.

Get a grip Australia we have to learn to live with it!!

I received a message from a very frustrated relation in Melbourne today there does not seem to be a straightforward vaccination plan. Also, parts of the city are being put in nighttime curfew when already in lockdown.

BlueBelle six years is such a long time, I’m so sorry. Let’s cross our fingers that they get on with their vaccination programme a bit more quickly. My own opinion is that to have only vaccinated 17% of the eligible population after all this time when we have managed to vaccinate millions shows a lack of concern for the businesses that are suffering and a lack of concern for people’s human right to enjoy family life (including family who live abroad.) I realise that there is a shortage of the Pfizer vaccine, it can’t be manufactured as quickly as countries want to buy it, but there are fewer than five million people in NZ and since Britain acquired millions of doses, it strikes me that not too much effort was made to acquire the necessary doses in enough time. I don’t think much of Jacinda Ardern’s management of this situation.

The vaccine roll out is the only way out. Australia did so well with closing borders and keeping deaths down but has failed abysmally with the vaccines. They’ll keep on having lockdowns until they vaccinate sufficient people.

I think NZ has double vaccinated 17% of the population !!

Well NZ is the same I haven’t seen my son and family for six years he was due to visit just the year it all kicked off 2019 had their tickets and ready to come over changed their tickets to last year but still stuck so got their money back and waiting and waiting now N Z is talking about not opening their airports till later 2022 at the earliest Who knows when we ll meet again their travel industry will be dead if it goes on much longer

Oh Pippa I do hope you get to see your son again, which I’m sure you will at some point, maybe even as soon as early next year. Maybe I over egged the pudding, I just had the impression from what’s reported and from a poster on Gransnet who lives in Australia, that things were very bad, especially re the number of people taking up the offer of a vaccine. I hope they will have vaccinated the 80% by December because in particular, I know there are a great many Gransnetters who have adult children living in Australia including yourself, and I know they’re desperately hoping to be able to see their children soon.
You’re probably aware that my daughter and her family recently moved to New Zealand which has only vaccinated 17% of its eligible population which I find very worrying, not least because our dear little three year old keeps saying ‘I want to touch you’ when he’s on FaceTime with us, and he stretches out his little hand as if the screen could let him touch us. I’m hoping NZ will open up a bit after Christmas too (and with mother in a care home now) we could visit them then. But if they don’t get on with their vaccination programme it won’t happen. Fingers crossed for us all.

maddyone

It’s been bad enough here, but I’d rather be here than living in a country where there’s no end in sight and a government that thinks it’s okay to lock its citizens up indefinitely and keep out foreigners indefinitely. Whatever else we’ve done badly, we have got a fantastic vaccination programme here and now 89% are once vaccinated and 76% are double vaccinated. More vaccinations are being done every day.

I’d rather be here than living in a country where there’s no end in sight and a government that thinks it’s okay to lock its citizens up indefinitely and keep out foreigners indefinitely.

Are you describing Australia maddyone? I was talking to my son this morning and that is not how it is. Why do you think there is no end in sight. At the current rate of vaccinations, Australia should hit the federal government’s 80% threshold to ease restrictions by the beginning of December. This is what they are working towards.

I have heard of no intention to keep foreigners out indefinitely and I think DS would have told me if he thought we would never meet again.

I posted this earlier but I presume you didn't bother to read it if you think we have done well by comparison:

Australia:
Population - 25M
Total Cases - 37,800
Deaths - 945

UK:
Population - 65M
Total Cases - 6,117,450
Deaths - 130,503

It’s been bad enough here, but I’d rather be here than living in a country where there’s no end in sight and a government that thinks it’s okay to lock its citizens up indefinitely and keep out foreigners indefinitely. Whatever else we’ve done badly, we have got a fantastic vaccination programme here and now 89% are once vaccinated and 76% are double vaccinated. More vaccinations are being done every day.

We were all of the opinion that Australia had coped so well, but it has certainly dragged on.

tigger

Try it for over a year as we did in Leicester. At least you've got better weather and can sit out in the garden.

It's winter Down Under

Yep, been there, done that!
As my son said last night when we were discussing this :-
Australia started really well with keeping Covid out of the country but have been rubbish (not the actual word he used) at a vaccination program, whereas the UK have been rubbish at keeping Covid out but have been excellent at a vaccination program.
Sorry, but until the states in Aus work together, and really get stuck in to a proper countrywide vaccination program , the lockdowns will just keep on happening - at least you only have it for a week or so at a time, we had it for months and the whole country came to a standstill !

They have ‘upgraded’ our lockdown until 2nd September at least and have also added a night curfew. Poor young ones, so sad for them. Fine for us, we don’t go out at night that much anyway. All because of the Selfish Ones who refused to isolate and have now spread it around. I have to say we should never have opened the international airports until we were vaccinated, not rocket science.

What surprised me talking to DSthis morning is that his children’s school is putting work for vthe pupils online but not doing any actual zoom teaching. Makes it very hard with both parents trying to work from home.

It’s a muddle with different policies from different state leaders. The false information about the AZ has not helped.

esgt1967

I don't agree with lockdowns, they are not a way of "dealing" with the virus at all and I really feel for the people in Australia.

So how would you deal with the virus esgt1967? Expand the businesses of funeral directors and crematoria?