Stats on the up

Hear hear Maddyone

Discussing the latest scientific evidence is not mocking people.

Covid is spread via droplets in the air, and therefore primarily spread person to person. I have seen scientists on the television saying yes, Covid particles can remain on surfaces for a short time, but do not remain in a state in which they could cause infections in people. The particles degrade over quite a short time. Someone would apparently need to sneeze over an article and then it be immediately picked up by another person who then wiped their face with the contaminated hand. Even then, although not impossible, but apparently it’s highly unlikely that the person would contract Covid. In order to contract Covid, a person needs to breathe the virus deep inside their lungs, and it needs to be a viral load sufficient to cause illness.
At the beginning scientists didn’t know how Covid was spread and therefore advised the sanitisation of surfaces. It’s still good practice to sanitise our hands regularly whilst out of the house, and if people feel more confident having disinfected their shopping, then that’s fine, but perhaps those people should not be telling others that those who wish to get back to a limited form of normal, are shallow. They’re not!

I followed the advice of Dr Panganyiana from Exeter University who would appear on our local news every week during the first year of the pandemic. He advised wiping down all shopping and everything that came into the house, and quarantining goods. It wasn't considered ridiculous.

Alegrias1

MaizieD you are completely misrepresenting what I've said and, essentially, making things up that aren't true.

I said once that I didn't want to have my life curtailed for 20 years, which you have translated into me saying repeatedly that I don't want restrictions.

The experts that I quote have realistically pointed out that no disease has ever been eradicated and it is likely that Covid will always be with us. So the only way that we will avoid it is staying indoors, on our own, forever. That's not abandoning mitigations, that's forecasting what is going to happen in the long term.

I have never told anybody off for being "ridiculously cautious" unless you include me mentioning that people are still disinfecting their shopping. Which is, I'm afraid, ridiculously cautious. I've told you I wear a mask and avoid crowded places; I wash my hands and use sanitiser; I've pretty much abandoned every social activity I took part in before Covid. So yes, I do get a bit riled when we're told that people who can't just stay at home and keep themselves entertained are shallow and not resilient. Learning to live with it is not throwing caution to the wind, its amending our approach so we can have some semblance of a normal life in years to come.

Because Covid's not going away. Learn to live with it. I won't be answering any more posts on here accusing me of - well, I don't know what you're accusing me of, actually - but I hope people with an ounce of common sense will understand what I'm saying.

I understand what you’re saying. But then you mock people like me that are still disinfecting their shopping. I’ve done so since the start of the pandemic, I’ve got used to doing it and there have been other situations, non covid, where I’ve dropped my guard for a short time and been caught out. I’ve also spoken to and heard of several people that have been incredibly careful and have no idea how they could have caught covid except via their grocery delivery. The problem is, as with most things, people interpret things to suit themselves and, to many people ‘learning to live with it’ just gives them carte Blanche to do whatever they like and not consider others.

Alegrias I think your posts are eminently sensible. Having said that if some people want to stay at home and disinfect their shopping, well it’s a free world, so they can get on with it. No one, including Alegrias is saying they shouldn’t, if that’s what they want to do. However, for those of us who want to get on with our lives in the best way we can, taking certain precautions such as mask wearing and sanitising, that does not make us shallow or lacking in resilience. I’m hoping to go on holiday shortly to one of the Greek Islands and there was a whole thread once about how people ‘desperate’ for a holiday were in some way lacking in responsibility and even hints at lacking in character, so yes, shallow.

We have had conflicting News in the Lakes as well. Colin Cox director of Public health for Cumbria was on TV last week advising us all to be careful and imploring people who were coming for their holidays to test before they come.
A random interview was taken of tourists most of the middle-aged and young seemed oblivious and one chap even said he supposed he could have. An older couple who were well kitted out for fell walking said they tested at least twice a week.
The very next day someone representing tourist board Cumbria said it was safe to come and how good it is for the economy.
Why then are the figures rising at quite a rate in Eden the place where most exist the M6 or A66 with only a few small towns to shop and get petrol are people still piling in.
Though I have been told on good authority by at least two people the actual fells themselves are emptier than usual, they are all down treating the lake beaches like Blackpool from Ambleside to Ulleswater even people in bikinis!
A sight for many an old Cumbrian they have never seen before.
Maybe next week when the schools go back tourist hotspots will calm down and the numbers eventually rise in towns with schools.!!!!!!!

Jane Judge Your posts always make me giggle. I loved the one about birds which you posted on the “pets” site recently.

I had a really weird dream last night which included a new report telling us to start disinfecting our shopping again I think it is a sign I shouldn't read Gransnet before I am about to fall asleep.

It is a free for all in England, I agree. So many people having huge parties as well

growstuff

So learning to live with Covid means learning to live with people dying from it? Hmmm!

Unfortunately people do die from various types of influenza each year, too, something many have forgotten since this novel coronavirus arrived.

We will, I think, have to accept that it will still be with us for a long time, just as the devastating Spanish flu is still around in mutated form. We can hope it may mutate to become weaker but I doubt that we will eradicate it.
We can only hope that these high levels of infection and death will come down to much lower levels in future if more people become vaccinated and we continue to take sensible precautions as life returns to normal.

Living life is not without risks.

i think what alegrias means is that life needs to to be able to progress now after such a long time
i am all for that

Algeria’s The Chinese claimed that Covid-19 was found on packaging of frozen food (an attempt to divert scientists from the possible Wuhan lab leak). They did prove that covid can travel on packaging, so perhaps disinfecting food isn’t so “^ridiculously cautious^“?

Thank you for your sensible posts Alegrais I also agree with what you are saying

Sorry that was in answer to Alegrias1

I understand what you have been posting with regards to Covid-19, and I totally agree with you.

MaizieD you are completely misrepresenting what I've said and, essentially, making things up that aren't true.

I said once that I didn't want to have my life curtailed for 20 years, which you have translated into me saying repeatedly that I don't want restrictions.

The experts that I quote have realistically pointed out that no disease has ever been eradicated and it is likely that Covid will always be with us. So the only way that we will avoid it is staying indoors, on our own, forever. That's not abandoning mitigations, that's forecasting what is going to happen in the long term.

I have never told anybody off for being "ridiculously cautious" unless you include me mentioning that people are still disinfecting their shopping. Which is, I'm afraid, ridiculously cautious. I've told you I wear a mask and avoid crowded places; I wash my hands and use sanitiser; I've pretty much abandoned every social activity I took part in before Covid. So yes, I do get a bit riled when we're told that people who can't just stay at home and keep themselves entertained are shallow and not resilient. Learning to live with it is not throwing caution to the wind, its amending our approach so we can have some semblance of a normal life in years to come.

Because Covid's not going away. Learn to live with it. I won't be answering any more posts on here accusing me of - well, I don't know what you're accusing me of, actually - but I hope people with an ounce of common sense will understand what I'm saying.

This has been tweeted by Tim Spector , worrying for Scottish Grans

I don't know where you're getting that idea from, and it would be preferable if you tried not to personalise this to make me out to be some sort of Covid denier intent on selfish actions at the expense of others.

I'm getting the idea from the way you keep telling people off for being what you regard as being ridiculously cautious and your constant assertion that you don't want your life 'curtailed' in some way that you refuse to specify. Not to mention quoting experts who seem to have given up the whole idea of even mitigation and are trying to convince us that getting covid a few times will be absolutely fine... Perhaps you might enjoy that experience?

I had, though, forgotten you are in Scotland where a degree of sanity prevails (though the effect of children returning to school is rather sobering) but here in the English free for all with a government that's washed its hands of all responsibility for its citizens health, wealth or happiness it's a bit easy to get panicky...

The link between case numbers and serious illness/deaths has not been broken. It has been weakened, but it's still there. That's one of the major issues with the onset of the major months.

Wales has very similar rules as Scotland, but I went up to England to visit family last weekend and must admit it felt very lax compared with home. I was concerned from the perspective of my parents, who I was taking out for lunch, but the restaurant we went to was actually very quiet compared to usual. It was only the second time they had been out for lunch in 18 months, and they were keen to go because of the risk of the virus growing and them not getting out again for months over the winter. They are in their nineties, and evaluated the risk, I hope it was the right call.

Alegrias1

Well, as growstuff might say, you're not the only poster on GN. There are people talking about lockdowns, and there are people staying that their lives are absolutely fine, and suggesting that the rest of us need to stop moaning because we actually quite liked our lives as they were before and feel we can't go back to them. (I paraphrase).

Where I live mask wearing is mandatory indoors and I avoid crowded spaces. We have quite a good Test and Protect system going, too. I'm not an advocate of lifting all the restrictions, I don't know where you're getting that idea from, and it would be preferable if you tried not to personalise this to make me out to be some sort of Covid denier intent on selfish actions at the expense of others.

But that isn’t happening where I am. It’s ok in Scotland where people know the rules and abide by them but where I live it’s a free for all.

saying that their lives.....

Well, as growstuff might say, you're not the only poster on GN. There are people talking about lockdowns, and there are people staying that their lives are absolutely fine, and suggesting that the rest of us need to stop moaning because we actually quite liked our lives as they were before and feel we can't go back to them. (I paraphrase).

Where I live mask wearing is mandatory indoors and I avoid crowded spaces. We have quite a good Test and Protect system going, too. I'm not an advocate of lifting all the restrictions, I don't know where you're getting that idea from, and it would be preferable if you tried not to personalise this to make me out to be some sort of Covid denier intent on selfish actions at the expense of others.

Alegrias1

MaizieD

Alegrias1

I'm not wound up MaizieD, and I think its a common tactic to use that as a criticism to try to discredit another person's posts. If you want to see me wound up get yourself over to the Pen Farthing thread

Don't be daft. I just want to know what you mean by 'curtailed' because you are getting what looks very much to me like wound up and continually posting to attempt to prove that only you are being sensible about the situation. And accusing others of trying to 'curtail' your life, or advocating 'curtailing' people's lives is meaningless if you don't explain what you mean by 'curtailed'.

So I'm daft and wound up? Just as well I'm thick skinned as well .
Sorry if you think I'm continually posting but I stand up for myself, its the way I'm made.

I've not suggested in any way that I'm the only one being sensible, nor am I angry about anyone trying to curtail my life. I do a lot fewer things now than we are legally allowed to do, because I do what I think is safe for me. But there is a definite flavour of posters who make sidelong remarks about people not being good upstanding citizens because they don't wear their masks, they do go to festivals, or football matches or whatever. Or that we should all happily accept a limited life without question, for some as yet unspecified period, and it will be good for us anyway.

Way back at the start of the pandemic I read an article about how pandemics end. I tried to find it again but I can't Anyway, there are 2 ways it can end. One, the disease subsides and becomes a negligible threat to society. Or two, people learn to live with the risk, when it becomes acceptable. Acceptable isn't the same as negligible.

Well, let's put this another way.

All I'm asking for is mandatory mask wearing in enclosed or very crowded spaces and improved ventilation everywhere that doesn't have it.

Decent test & trace and more investment in the NHS would help, too

Is this curtailing your life?

Casdon

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said silverbridge, we don’t have any option but to open up to survive, and I’m currently living as full a life as possible. The reality though is that we are still in a precarious position.

I agree that our position is precarious but we have to go forward

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said silverbridge, we don’t have any option but to open up to survive, and I’m currently living as full a life as possible. The reality though is that we are still in a precarious position.