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Coronavirus

Young ones and corona virus

(57 Posts)
nanna8 Tue 12-Oct-21 00:53:30

I have a granddaughter who is working very, very hard on a Covid ward in the city here in Melbourne. She said their ward was full of young anti Vaxxers who are getting very sick. She thinks if these people had just spent an hour in the ward they would change their minds pretty quickly. What concerns me is that it is now harder for people to get into hospital for essential treatment because these selfish people are occupying many of the beds. Should they be put down lower on a priority list do you think? Why should some cancer sufferers be made to wait longer and possibly put their lives at risk because of these bozos ?

Cymres1 Tue 12-Oct-21 14:53:35

AGAA4

Doctors and nurses have to take an oath on registration to "first do no harm". I would take this to mean that if they have the skills to help someone in danger they should do so.

The UK nurses I know don't, and as far as I know haven't, had to abide by the Hippocratic Oath. Just medical staff, as far as I'm aware. Is this different in other countries? Curious now.
I think the question of denying care based on lifestyle choices is indeed a slippery slope, but it's already happening sadly. A friend who is of big build, a familial trait, is now classified as clinically obese because she's shrunk with age. Walking is painful because of osteoarthritis, after years of physical work as a nurse and midwife, but she's been told that she will probably not be accepted for hip replacement. She's a nonsmoker, minimal drinker who eats sensibly The rules are already affecting many clinicians' decisions.
I understand where the OP is coming from, I am also furious with the flat earth, anti-everything types but as for stopping their treatment this won't happen. However, unfortunately, for more non-Covid related conditions I'm afraid the stable door has already swung wide and the horse is long gone.

MerylStreep Tue 12-Oct-21 15:02:06

Reading this thread led me to search as to why my B12 injections are so painful. I’ve learnt that they don’t have to be given through the muscle but can be given through tummy fat.
Yeh 😄

4allweknow Tue 12-Oct-21 15:11:02

Often wonder if the parents of activators had them protected against all the childhood illnesses, polio, TB, by inoculation. Have they been living a disease free life, I wonder. If they were inoculated they didn't have much choice in the matter being young but now they seem to think vaccinations are terrible. Leave them to discover the full effects of diseases as of course they should also consider all the drugs pumped into them for any treatment must be awful too so wouldn't accept them either.

maddyone Tue 12-Oct-21 15:12:43

Maggiemaybe

From the British Medical Journal:

^of 40 000 patients with covid-19 who were admitted to hospital between December 2020 and July 2021 a total of 33 496 (84%) had not been vaccinated. It found that 5198 (13%) of these patients had received their first vaccine and 1274 (3%) their second.^

I was one of those patients. I was admitted on 1st January with severe Covid. I wasn’t vaccinated. I hadn’t been called for a vaccination at that point so I couldn’t have been vaccinated. The doctors at the hospital treated me and made me well. Thank God for our doctors.
So no, we should not refuse people treatment because they’re not vaccinated. Nonetheless if they’re not vaccinated by choice, then I think they’re selfish and anti social.

Nancat Tue 12-Oct-21 15:12:56

As we are in a Pandemic, I feel that there should be no choice about vaccination, unless there is a medical reason that one cannot have the jab, it should be Mandatory. Personal preference should have no place in such a decision. The risk to themselves is irrelevant, they put others at risk, which should not be allowed. The needs of the majority far outweigh the preference of the paranoid few.

hilz Tue 12-Oct-21 15:14:33

There are millions spent each year on people with dubious lifestyles. Who am I to say they deserve treatment less than you or I ?
In this world of ours all of us should have equal access to healthcare and we were far short of that even pre pandemic.
All I know is that difficult decisions have always had to be made and behind those decisions is a human being and I would say they carry some of those at personal cost forever. My heart goes out to all healthcare workers trying to balence services and of course to those affected adversely by it.
I wish blaming people for the way they got Covid hadn't become such a thing and as a society we could live our lives safely despite the dreadful virus so I continue to try and do that but I do fear we are still a long way off living harmoniously amidst it. Try to stay as safe everyone x

Thisismyname1953 Tue 12-Oct-21 15:22:37

@ callistemum. You have much greater chance of dying of a clot with covid than you do with a vaccine so the Minister is scare mongering . Younger people should be advised to have a different variation of the vaccine .

Callistemon Tue 12-Oct-21 15:23:49

I agree hilz

Is this a backlash to the possible over-vaccination of children in Australia? They tend to have more than children in the UK. I understand vaccination is compulsory if children are to be accepted in a State school and some children have been vaccinated (not just Covid vaccines) without parental permission.

Callistemon Tue 12-Oct-21 15:24:14

Thisismyname1953

@ callistemum. You have much greater chance of dying of a clot with covid than you do with a vaccine so the Minister is scare mongering . Younger people should be advised to have a different variation of the vaccine .

Well, I know that but apparently she doesn't!

Glenco Tue 12-Oct-21 15:47:37

Effalump: "Perhaps if the Global governments hadn't locked everyone down and made them wear face masks for the best part of two years, the younger people would have had the chance for their natural immunities to grower stronger. Old generations who have had several decades of catching and recovering from severe illness whether bacterial or viral will have fairly strong immune systems, even those with life threatening illnesses will have been made more vulnerable by taking drugs which suppess their immune system. Even anti-biotics wipe out your gut bacteria, good and bad. Then, of course, there are so many health professionals who are losing their jobs because they are not double jabbed. It's not the un-vaxxed that's overwhelming the hospitals its Govt cut-backs over the years that means there are not enough hospital staff or beds."
This makes me think you are an anti-vaxxer. If the older generations have developed a stronger immunity why are so many of them dying of Covid? Why do anti-vaxxers who become seriously ill with Covid or anything else accept drugs and other "poisons" that make them better? We have people here who refuse the jab and become ill pleading for the jab as they go onto ventilators. It's too late then, the jab won't do anything. I just don't understand the logic of refusing the protection that the jabs give. If it wasn't for innoculations we'd still have smallpox, TB, polio, etc. How do you explain the horrendously high rate of infection and death before the vaccines and the drop after if people's immune systems are so strong? Are you suggesting that antibiotics and vaccinations are not necessary? I suppose if you subscribe to the survival of the fittest policy it would work.

TheMaggiejane1 Tue 12-Oct-21 15:54:38

Perhaps here in the UK people should be told that the NHS treatment for Covid-19 is the jab. If you decline the jab and later need hospital treatment for covid , you will be given it but at a daily charge for however long you are in hospital.

Alegrias1 Tue 12-Oct-21 15:56:46

TheMaggiejane1

Perhaps here in the UK people should be told that the NHS treatment for Covid-19 is the jab. If you decline the jab and later need hospital treatment for covid , you will be given it but at a daily charge for however long you are in hospital.

Oh OK - lie to people and then charge for healthcare. That will work. hmm

AGAA4 Tue 12-Oct-21 15:58:54

Cymres1

AGAA4

Doctors and nurses have to take an oath on registration to "first do no harm". I would take this to mean that if they have the skills to help someone in danger they should do so.

The UK nurses I know don't, and as far as I know haven't, had to abide by the Hippocratic Oath. Just medical staff, as far as I'm aware. Is this different in other countries? Curious now.
I think the question of denying care based on lifestyle choices is indeed a slippery slope, but it's already happening sadly. A friend who is of big build, a familial trait, is now classified as clinically obese because she's shrunk with age. Walking is painful because of osteoarthritis, after years of physical work as a nurse and midwife, but she's been told that she will probably not be accepted for hip replacement. She's a nonsmoker, minimal drinker who eats sensibly The rules are already affecting many clinicians' decisions.
I understand where the OP is coming from, I am also furious with the flat earth, anti-everything types but as for stopping their treatment this won't happen. However, unfortunately, for more non-Covid related conditions I'm afraid the stable door has already swung wide and the horse is long gone.

My daughter took this oath when she graduated so maybe it's a new requirement. It also should be a requirement for registered nurses.

Joesoap Tue 12-Oct-21 22:28:00

Its a tricky one, obviously everyone should be vaccinated, but the antivaxx people dont take responsibility,and their actions or lack of them play a toll on them, becoming seriously ill, and taking up a bed that someone more deserving has to wait for.Yes if these irresponsible people could take time and see the pictures from ICU maybe they would change their mind, although I doubt it, they are making a statement,and putting other peoples lives at risk and may others too.Just get vaccinated and do something for someone else.

Jannicans Tue 12-Oct-21 23:17:01

We haven't had this virus before. It can be prevented from spreading further by vaccination so those who choose not to be vaccinated are putting others at harm so pushing others who need medical treatment further down the waiting line. The other illnesses mentioned here are mostly ones that happen over time, this virus one isn't one of them.

GagaJo Tue 12-Oct-21 23:21:07

My daughters step-sister (fathers 2nd marriage) has covid. She's an antivaxxer. Has 2 children. She's been ill for 2 weeks. Been in hospital. STILL ill at home, can't manage being on her feet for more than 5 minutes. Her retired (vaxxed) mum is looking after her DDand the DGC.

Step-sister works for the NHS. You couldn't make it up.

ElaineI Tue 12-Oct-21 23:52:17

AGAA4

Cymres1

AGAA4

Doctors and nurses have to take an oath on registration to "first do no harm". I would take this to mean that if they have the skills to help someone in danger they should do so.

The UK nurses I know don't, and as far as I know haven't, had to abide by the Hippocratic Oath. Just medical staff, as far as I'm aware. Is this different in other countries? Curious now.
I think the question of denying care based on lifestyle choices is indeed a slippery slope, but it's already happening sadly. A friend who is of big build, a familial trait, is now classified as clinically obese because she's shrunk with age. Walking is painful because of osteoarthritis, after years of physical work as a nurse and midwife, but she's been told that she will probably not be accepted for hip replacement. She's a nonsmoker, minimal drinker who eats sensibly The rules are already affecting many clinicians' decisions.
I understand where the OP is coming from, I am also furious with the flat earth, anti-everything types but as for stopping their treatment this won't happen. However, unfortunately, for more non-Covid related conditions I'm afraid the stable door has already swung wide and the horse is long gone.

My daughter took this oath when she graduated so maybe it's a new requirement. It also should be a requirement for registered nurses.

It has never been an oath for nurses in the UK and doubt it would be allowed now. Nurses don't have oaths. They go to Uni, have practical experience, pass their course and register as a nurse. They then have to abide by the Code of Professional Conduct which has several aspects to it but not oaths. I have no idea if medical doctors still have this oath or not. Perhaps a doctor could reply.
As for the poster, look back at the UK news from March 2020 till present day - we had a horrific nightmare (still having) of a time with Covid patients dying, care home residents dying, people at home dying - vaccinated and unvaccinated. Australia is only now experiencing higher cases because of closures of state boundaries. Our relatives in Perth don't have a b....y clue how bad it has been for us and might be for them as they reopen the borders. The UK has no mandatory vaccinations - not tetanus, not measles, not mumps, not TB, not diphtheria, not rubella, not men c, not whooping cough, not hep A,B,C or whatever for anyone. It is personal choice or parental choice and people who fall ill are treated as and when they need it by our health care teams in whatever setting required and by vaccinated and unvaccinated staff who put their own lives and family lives at risk. It is the nature of the job, always has been in most countries. I would have reregistered as a nurse to go back to help but instead minded my DGS so my daughter could keep working as a nurse because the childminder closed.

MayBee70 Wed 13-Oct-21 00:20:35

effalump

Taylor2016 Do you also think that people who drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes/cigars shouldn't get treatment? How about people who are obese through eating a lot of junk food (not those who have a genuine medical reason for being overweight)?
Perhaps if the Global governments hadn't locked everyone down and made them wear face masks for the best part of two years, the younger people would have had the chance for their natural immunities to grower stronger. Old generations who have had several decades of catching and recovering from severe illness whether bacterial or viral will have fairly strong immune systems, even those with life threatening illnesses will have been made more vulnerable by taking drugs which suppess their immune system. Even anti-biotics wipe out your gut bacteria, good and bad. Then, of course, there are so many health professionals who are losing their jobs because they are not double jabbed. It's not the un-vaxxed that's overwhelming the hospitals its Govt cut-backs over the years that means there are not enough hospital staff or beds.

It’s a novel virus. You can’t have a developed immunity to something that’s new. It’s why indigenous peoples are wiped out when people from other countries invade them.

growstuff Wed 13-Oct-21 00:40:32

AGAA4

Cymres1

AGAA4

Doctors and nurses have to take an oath on registration to "first do no harm". I would take this to mean that if they have the skills to help someone in danger they should do so.

The UK nurses I know don't, and as far as I know haven't, had to abide by the Hippocratic Oath. Just medical staff, as far as I'm aware. Is this different in other countries? Curious now.
I think the question of denying care based on lifestyle choices is indeed a slippery slope, but it's already happening sadly. A friend who is of big build, a familial trait, is now classified as clinically obese because she's shrunk with age. Walking is painful because of osteoarthritis, after years of physical work as a nurse and midwife, but she's been told that she will probably not be accepted for hip replacement. She's a nonsmoker, minimal drinker who eats sensibly The rules are already affecting many clinicians' decisions.
I understand where the OP is coming from, I am also furious with the flat earth, anti-everything types but as for stopping their treatment this won't happen. However, unfortunately, for more non-Covid related conditions I'm afraid the stable door has already swung wide and the horse is long gone.

My daughter took this oath when she graduated so maybe it's a new requirement. It also should be a requirement for registered nurses.

Nurses in the UK don't take the Hippocratic Oath.

Nanatoone Wed 13-Oct-21 08:53:27

It’s really hard to understand the anti Vaxxers. My 37 year old teacher daughter, has covid. She has had both vaccines. She’s been (and remains three weeks on) really poorly. She is at home, managing two small children (with some help from me and hubby), school has told her to stay off until after half term but she’s determined to go back on Monday. I have no idea how she can go back, she can’t manage a couple of hours on her feet. She’s still breathless, and unwell. I only know that had she not been double jabbed, we may have lost her. She’s young, very fit and a healthy eater. It’s a horrible illness for many.

ChrisK Wed 13-Oct-21 09:52:12

I think that there have been many valid points made on this naturally very emotive subject. Here in the uk, my family have largely escaped covid the only exception being my granddaughter 22 who works with vulnerable adults and as such a key worker was double jabbed early on so has been fine. In the last 6 weeks she attended a pop festival, she was feeling a bit run down, I think she came up against a strain of the delta variant and as a result fell victim to covid, ultimately she was quite ill and only narrowly missed hospitalization, my point is that we must still be vigilant. Our teenagers must be vaccinated post haste, followed by the younger ones nasal sprayed, they are much too precious to leave all this to chance!!!

Juicywords Wed 13-Oct-21 10:27:42

DiscoDancer1975

I think it boils down to acceptable and unacceptable risk. Eventually, the NHS will run out of money, so these type of choices will have to be made. No longer theoretical, but a reality.

I’m in favour of a vaccine passport, as is happening in other European countries. Currently the NHS is being hijacked by Covid.

Gabrielle56 Wed 13-Oct-21 14:18:58

Near us is the site of an old isolation hospital.now houses. But- back in black and white days, you'd be sent to one of these places if you had a very infectious disease( TB/scarlet fever/measles/diptheria whooping cough etc) to recover and be treated far away from - well everyone! Maybe time for a rethink? Old ways are often the seeds of great new adaptations/innovations. Isolate covid patients in their own hospitals /clinics to be treated but way away from mainstream ill bods so no cross infection and resources left intact. Oops! Soz everyone, silly me, 🤣🤣that would mean spending some of our taxed English pounds on something we actually need......!

Alegrias1 Wed 13-Oct-21 14:24:53

English pounds. 🤦‍♀️

growstuff Wed 13-Oct-21 14:25:50

Personally, I don't think that's such a bad idea Gabrielle, although I'm not sure how easy/practical it would be to convert some of these places into the high tech ICUs which are needed.

Maybe they could have been converted into small apartments, where people who needed to self-isolate could stay. From the start of the pandemic, it's been a problem that some people have had to work outside the home and/or have not had anywhere at home where they could properly self-isolate and it's been a major reason for transmission.