Your idea of stable??

No no no "MaizieD", it's obviously schools. Why would you even question that? Obvious, obvious.

Open the windows.

Quite scary here in Trafford. Worst borough in Greater Manchester out of the 10.

Cases Up 17% a few days ago.
Bolton is at the bottom - cases up by 1%

The rise in England is directly related to the start of the school term too.

Is that corroborated by England only figures, growstuff?

I've been keeping a record of UK daily case numbers for well over a year now. when I look back to this summer the rise in case numbers seems to start towards the end of June. As do daily death numbers (though theoretically there should be a lag on those) The UK was into 30,000+ a day new cases by the beginning of July (as opposed to 5 -6,000 at the beginning of June.

Why would that be, I wonder? (I have no theory to offer)

Is there a personality type that is more likely to include mask refusal?

For instance men, not well educated, shouty or stupid, disorganised or unimaginative life style.

The UK is the third most obese nation in Europe. It's a factor.

www.thelancet.com/journals/langas/article/PIIS2468-1253(21)00190-4/fulltext

Casdon

I think it’s partly about the ‘policing’ of the arrangements though Alegrias1, with the UK nations not being as rigid as some others. It’s also about the failure to vaccinate young people before the school term started again- I don’t know about in Scotland, but in Wales the rise was directly linked to the return to school.

The rise in England is directly related to the start of the school term too.

Alegrias1

I think you may be correct Casdon, especially about the vaccination of young people.

In Scotland the rise in cases started before the kids went back to school though, my guess would be people going to clubs etc when they opened up. Although the TRNSMT festival didn't cause a spike.

Which is why I get so blooming angry about the "wear face masks and open the windows" comments. Its more complicated than that.

But it's not going to do any harm, is it?

Have you found out yet what's going on in schools? Or is it still hearsay?

MOnica just totally agree with every point you made on that post. We have to get back to normal and I hope some posters feel a bit reassured by your comments, & start to see people again (I'm not very sociable & don't live alone & didn't mind lockdown at first - but so many things I found easy pre-Covid are so difficult now - driving in traffic, public transport, socialising - many more months & I would have lost those abilities for ever I think)

I think you may be correct Casdon, especially about the vaccination of young people.

In Scotland the rise in cases started before the kids went back to school though, my guess would be people going to clubs etc when they opened up. Although the TRNSMT festival didn't cause a spike.

Which is why I get so blooming angry about the "wear face masks and open the windows" comments. Its more complicated than that.

If my daughter hadn’t ‘ve picked up her eldest son having covid on a lateral flow test the whole family would probably have been infected. And for those that think they don’t work she tracked the progress of his illness using the tests and they were very accurate.

I think it’s partly about the ‘policing’ of the arrangements though Alegrias1, with the UK nations not being as rigid as some others. It’s also about the failure to vaccinate young people before the school term started again- I don’t know about in Scotland, but in Wales the rise was directly linked to the return to school.

It should be bl**ding obvious that the European countries with similar climate/lifestyles/population density to the UK still make mask wearing compulsory and have lower case rates.

Scotland?

Masks compulsory. Highest vaccination rate of any of the home nations; higher than Italy, France... Vaccine passports from next week. Good communications from the FM.

3 or 4 times the case rates of Spain, Germany, France and Italy. Its not as bl**ding obvious as some might think.

I would add consistent, coherent and trustworthy messaging to that list.

That’s exactly the point growstuff. If they can do it in Germany, with no discernible disadvantage to their economy compared with ours (shock, horror!) we should be able to do it too. It’s not about locking down, it’s about not compromising on the things that we know are proven to make a difference in case numbers - and about the competent introduction of systems that help manage the situation.

Rant away Alegrias! Whatever rocks your boat! It should be bl**ding obvious that the European countries with similar climate/lifestyles/population density to the UK still make mask wearing compulsory and have lower case rates. They have also invested more in making their schools safer. Maybe it's a coincidence, but it's worth trying. The UK does not have to live with 800 deaths a week.

Oh FGS.

I've been staying off this thread because I know anything I say will be leapt on by the massed ranks of GN, but here we go anyway.

The UK government could make things better in England by imposing tougher restrictions, obviously.

Its also obvious that GG13 is making the point that we have a new disease that we have to get used to, deaths are not as high as deaths from other causes and we need to keep some perspective.

We can't keep saying "France is better" (or whatever) because we don't know if the method of measuring deaths in all these different countries is comparable with our method.

None of us, none of us, knows how to get to the Nirvana of low cases and deaths. Face masks probably help, but so would staying locked in our houses for nine months. Ask nanny8 how that's going.

Rant over. On you go.

But we can’t possibly look at how inferior countries are dealing with the crisis….

I don't know how many other deaths have other causes. What I do know is that the number of deaths we have are not inevitable. Covid doesn't drop out of the sky and strike people at random like some kind of alien space invader. People are being infected (and some are dying or being seriously ill) because they have spent time in an environment with infected particles. There isn't a single, simple solution to stopping that happening, but we do know enough to stop the majority of infections. We still have a national crisis, which needs a national response. It's just not good enough to tell people to do what they think best because everybody will have different ideas. I just don't understand why we're not looking at other countries where infection rates, hospitalisations and deaths are lower (however one likes to manipulate statistics) and learn from best practice. Enforcing mask wearing wouldn't be that difficult, in addition to enabling good ventilation, especially in schools.

It doesn’t though GrannyGravy13, because Covid is immediately avoidable, whereas the majority of the other causes of death are the cumulative effect of way of life or genetic factors. You can’t directly equate an infectious disease with ill health.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I am saying that looking at the whole picture and break down of all deaths each day in U.K. shines a different light on the situation.

Some non-Covid deaths are avoidable, healthy lifestyle can ward off many, some are sadly not avoidable. The vaccine has reduced the risk of hospitalisation and/or death from/with Covid immensely.

The last figures I saw were indicative of the majority of deaths attributed to Covid were in the unvaccinated or those with underlying co-morbidities. There will always be cases that do not fall into these categories, but that goes for other illnesses also.

No it doesn't shine a different light. It just sounds like excusing a inert government.

It is irrelevant how many other deaths there are. Many of the covid deaths could be avoidable if the government cared to do something about it.

MaizieD I am saying that looking at the whole picture and break down of all deaths each day in U.K. shines a different light on the situation.

Some non-Covid deaths are avoidable, healthy lifestyle can ward off many, some are sadly not avoidable. The vaccine has reduced the risk of hospitalisation and/or death from/with Covid immensely.

The last figures I saw were indicative of the majority of deaths attributed to Covid were in the unvaccinated or those with underlying co-morbidities. There will always be cases that do not fall into these categories, but that goes for other illnesses also.

maddyone

I understand that this is a libertarian government, but what I don’t understand is that we’re apparently being given the liberty to catch Covid freely and to possibly die from Covid. That’s a bit of liberty I could do without. I do believe that we have to live with Covid, I know there’s unlikely to ever be zero Covid but I don’t understand the tolerance of 800 deaths in a week, or 45000 positive cases in a single day.

I don't understand it either.

Perhaps if these deaths and causes were published each day it just might make some people take more care of themselves.

What on earth are you getting at here, GG13. Are you saying that all death is avoidable? Or that people are dying from covid because they haven't taken enough care of themselves?

We have a global pandemic of a very nasty disease. Other nasty diseases have been eliminated or severely curtailed by vaccination which confers immunity and builds herd immunity. We don't have it in this case. All we have is a vaccine which at best limits the severity of covid; it doesn't offer complete immunity to it. In which case, shouldn't our government be doing something more to actively mitigate its effects and the danger of catching it. By, say, mandatory mask wearing, protecting our young people by making their environment as safe as possible through improving ventilation and air quality in the institutions which they are obliged to attend?

Tolerating death and disablement because the they can't be bothered any longer to try to protect its citizens is not the action of a responsible government.

On average 1,400 people die each day in the U.K. so by my reckoning approximately 7% of deaths are attributable to COVID-19.

Perhaps if these deaths and causes were published each day it just might make some people take more care of themselves.

I understand that this is a libertarian government, but what I don’t understand is that we’re apparently being given the liberty to catch Covid freely and to possibly die from Covid. That’s a bit of liberty I could do without. I do believe that we have to live with Covid, I know there’s unlikely to ever be zero Covid but I don’t understand the tolerance of 800 deaths in a week, or 45000 positive cases in a single day.