Christmas with the vaccine refusers??

Personally it does not bother me having unvaccinated guests in the house. We were mixing before the vaccines became available taking various precautions. Now that most are vaccinated there should be less danger than when none of us were vaccinated.

I am not going to create a division between vaccinated or non vaccinated. Governments and others are doing a pretty good job of creating that divide IMO

Where am I getting my information from?

Well there's the BMJ : blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/25/significant-proportions-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-or-dying-from-covid-19-in-england-are-vaccinated-this-doesnt-mean-the-vaccines-dont-work/

And there's Public Health Wales: www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/figures-explain-many-people-hospital-21217093

And there's Public Health Scotland: www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/vaccine

And of course, Public Heath England, while they still existed (page 12): assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

Alegrias1

No susysue you are incorrect.

This is not scaremongering news, and I quoted the msn article to demonstrate how that is the case because they used data that showed one thing then had a completely contradictory headline. You are correct to say that most double vaccinated people don't end up in hospital, but that is not the same as saying most people in hospital are not vaccinated.

The "vast number" of people admitted to hospital are not vaccine refusers, they are double vaccinated people in older age groups. That doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't work, it means the vaccine does work but is not 100%.

It's a consequence of the huge number of older people who have been vaccinated, and certainly isn't vaccine denial. Trying to pretend otherwise is the fake news.

Alegrias1, do you work or have relatives who are admitting people into hospital, as I do?? I have no idea where you are getting your info from but I think the accurate info is from those at the front line, like my daughter, an A and E trainee registrar. They are the ones who know the real truth and I can categorically advise you that it is the unvaccinated who are now in the majority being hospitalised and seriously ill

No susysue you are incorrect.

This is not scaremongering news, and I quoted the msn article to demonstrate how that is the case because they used data that showed one thing then had a completely contradictory headline. You are correct to say that most double vaccinated people don't end up in hospital, but that is not the same as saying most people in hospital are not vaccinated.

The "vast number" of people admitted to hospital are not vaccine refusers, they are double vaccinated people in older age groups. That doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't work, it means the vaccine does work but is not 100%.

It's a consequence of the huge number of older people who have been vaccinated, and certainly isn't vaccine denial. Trying to pretend otherwise is the fake news.

Alegrias1

^People hospitalised in the current phase are largely unvaccinated.^

Who do people keep saying this when it isn't true? Comfort? Lack of understanding of Bayesian probability theory? Not understanding that rate isn't the same as absolute number?

All of it, probably. That and misleading headlines in the press.

In terms of raw numbers, more double-vaccinated people were hospitalised or died from Covid in England last month compared to un-vaccinated people.

But this is simply due to the fact eight in 10 adults — or 48.3million people — are fully vaccinated, leaving only a small number unprotected, and the vaccines are not 100 per cent effective.

www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/vast-majority-of-people-being-hospitalised-with-covid-are-unvaccinated/ar-AAOgLA7

Alegrias1, and you believe the daily mail and other fear mongering newspapers?? Why don't you speak to hospital doctors like my daughter who will confirm to you that that piece of news is utterly rubbish. The vast number of people now being hospitalised are the vaccine refusers, especially pregnant women who have chosen not to get vaccinated because they have believed the utter rubbish and lies spread in the media. They are now filling up ICU beds in hospitals, completely and utterly irresponsibly. Indeed some of them are having to have their unborn babies induced at 28 weeks as they have covid and are so ill. Totally ridiculous. Yes there will be people who are doubly vaccinated and end up ill. But the vast majority of these people do not end up in hospital, let alone ICU

Daisymae Don't forget as a fully vaccinated person you are every bit a risk to your unvaccinated relatives. The government keep saying that the double vaccinated can still catch it and can still pass it on. It may stop you from getting it really bad but you can still pass it round. Are your u.v.'d relatives afraid of coming to visit?

Ok, I bow to superior knowledge that they are licensed for emergency use, but this is an emergency, and I stand by my opinion that they are not "unlicensed"!

Alegrias1

Did someone call?

That's what I think too GG13. Not sure about the exact dates but unlicensed certainly doesn't mean untested.

Thank you

Did someone call?

That's what I think too GG13. Not sure about the exact dates but unlicensed certainly doesn't mean untested.

Wheniwasyourage all Covid vaccines currently in use have been licensed for emergency use I think they will be fully licensed in 2023.

Alegrias1 can you confirm or clarify please.

AJKW

Why do they need to be vaccinated in order for your vaccine to be effective?
Why do they need to wear a mask if your mask is effective?
If the vaccine is a touchy subject don’t discuss it, but don’t force your willingness to accept an unlicensed vaccine onto them.

What do you mean, "unlicensed", AJKW? Of course all the vaccines offered to us are licensed and fully tested. Do we have to have this sort of stupidity all the time? Please check your facts before producing such nonsense and trying to alarm people.

I bet they're not having the "I don't want to cause upset" conversation in their home?......

Think about this.

Worrying about being near an unvaccinated person is going to drive us all insane, we have to get on with things. Everybody will judge for themselves what is right for them.

The link given by Alegrias states that there is a reduced risk of infection from vaccinated people, even if they do have the virus, although that wears off with time.

'Judging for themselves' is what the OP and her husband want to do, and want to have it respected by their relatives.

The relatives want their choice to be respected so they should also respect the OP's choice.

We know 3 folk who tested 3/4 times negative at home then developed symptoms so had PCR test done-positive!
We do our best, test regularly, mask up and avoid crowds.
Local SIL has just called round to retrieve their suitcases from our (larger than theirs) loft.
None of their family is vaxed.
I asked if they test-no!
We’re going on holiday this weekend same time as them. We’ll be in our own separate mobile home; they will be in their own caravan. We’ll meet up outdoors for walks; May sit in their outside annex for a drink.
Will, once again, ask if they’ll test before we go round at Christmas. If the answer’s «no» I prefer to stay home but DH knows this will cause upset ? IMHO less upset than if we became ill !

LizzieL

DH and I currently have Covid and it's like a bad cold or flu (not worse) but we are double vaccinated. I would definitely not want the full force version. My father's 90th birthday at the end of this month will require all of us (vaccinated or not) to take Rapid flow tests before we meet up.

Unfortunately not every double vaccinated person gets mild symptoms. I heard last night that a member of my craft group has died from Covid despite being fully vaccinated - she had no underlying health problems either as far as I know.

I feel very sad as this lady has been very cautious throughout, rarely going out with other people and following all the guidelines.

Luckygirl

Good advice above.

But I would struggle on another level - having vaccine refusers sharing my Christmas celebrations would irk me a great deal. I would prefer to celebrate with people who have common sense and a concern for others around them.

I am about to get jumped on I fear!!!

No jumping from me! I have already told DS that I won't be going to his house for C'mas if there is anyone there who is unvaccinated. Luckily, all DIL's (large) family are fully vaccinated, but I really would rather celebrate at home than risk catching Covid...
At the present rates of new infections, there will be between SIXTEEN & EIGHTEEN MILLION infections in the next year..!!! That's not what I call 'stable' ??

Agree. You need to protect yourself and DH .it's your home your territory.your rules. I bet they're not having the "I don't want to cause upset" conversation in their home?......

Sometimes I think my posts just don't show up. Only I see them and I'm really just dreaming all this. You lot are a figment of my imagination.

esgt1967

I don't really like this almost "apartheid" that seems to have emerged because of somebody's vaccination status. As many have said, being vaccinated doesn't mean that you can't become infected or pass on the virus so discriminating against unvaccinated people seems rather pointless (and unfair). If you are concerned about the virus, as others have suggested, it's better for everybody to take a test before socialising (including yourselves).

if you don't like it then don't do it. Its a fact that vaccinated people are much less likely to carry and pass on the virus.

I would say your house your rules. You might like to say that you are syaying home and having no visitors at all this year if you would be happy with a quiet christmas. I think the other thing is that I could agree to disagree with someone who had chosen not to be vaccinated but respected the choices of others but I could not be polite to evangelical antivaxxers especially those who spout nonsense to support their position.

I don't really like this almost "apartheid" that seems to have emerged because of somebody's vaccination status. As many have said, being vaccinated doesn't mean that you can't become infected or pass on the virus so discriminating against unvaccinated people seems rather pointless (and unfair). If you are concerned about the virus, as others have suggested, it's better for everybody to take a test before socialising (including yourselves).

I'm ECV all family vaccinated and they test before a visit but they don't visit often or prolonged periods We will stay by ourselves again this year

Casdon (I think) posted an article a few weeks ago about how the vaccines reduced transmission. So I went to find it again.

Lots of pre-release information, but this jumped out at me: After three months, people who had breakthrough infections after being vaccinated with AstraZeneca were just as likely to spread the delta variant as the unvaccinated.

Being vaccinated helps, but it's not foolproof. Worrying about being near an unvaccinated person is going to drive us all insane, we have to get on with things. Everybody will judge for themselves what is right for them.

www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

LizzieL

DH and I currently have Covid and it's like a bad cold or flu (not worse) but we are double vaccinated. I would definitely not want the full force version. My father's 90th birthday at the end of this month will require all of us (vaccinated or not) to take Rapid flow tests before we meet up.

You're getting off lightly LizzieL. My DD's step sister (double vacc'd), young woman of 32, has been ill for 3 weeks. Admitted to hospital. Her mum was beside herself with worry.

AJKW

Why do they need to be vaccinated in order for your vaccine to be effective?
Why do they need to wear a mask if your mask is effective?
If the vaccine is a touchy subject don’t discuss it, but don’t force your willingness to accept an unlicensed vaccine onto them.

She's not forcing. She's considering withdrawing HER company.

As the OP said, her husband is extremely clinically vulnerable. Are people in that category to have anti vaxxers forced into their company, possibly carrying a virus that is very dangerous, potentially deathly, to the ECV person?

Don't be vaccinated if you don't want to AJKW, but don't force your risky behaviour on the rest of us.