Criminally Negligent: What Jacob Rees Mogg Said! ?

Amalgera Why do you believe you're right about mask wearing and social distancing? The evidence and your own common sense must tell you that they provide a barrier to transmission in a way that being "convivial" won't. Masks and social distancing aren't the same as lockdowns. On the contrary, suppressing transmission avoids the need for further lockdowns and gives the NHS a chance to start clearing the backlog and for children and young people to get some kind of normal education. There is no guarantee that this virus will become less strong or virulent any time soon.

Amalgera Why do you believe you're right about mask wearing and social distancing? The evidence and your own common sense must tell you that they provide a barrier to transmission. Masks and social distancing aren't the same as lockdowns. On the contrary, suppressing transmission avoids the need for further lockdowns and gives the NHS a chance to start clearing the backlog and for children and young people to get some kind of normal education. There is no guarantee that this virus will become less strong or virulent any time soon.

A great deal of mixed messaging from government, scientists and associated ‘experts’ much of which is totally contradictory! I think that we have to make up our own minds as to the truth of the situation and I personally read quite a lot about it from various sources. Vaccination has indeed ‘ broken the link’ between excess deaths directly because of Covid, I believe, but we must not forget the (at least) five million people waiting for treatment by the beleaguered NHS, despite the billions being poured into it! There will be many more deaths indirectly because of Covid. I do not believe that mask wearing, hand washing, social distancing, lockdowns etc will do much to stop a virus that, like flu and colds, will become endemic in the population. Vaccines and treatments will improve; the strength and virulence will wane. I just do my best to keep myself and my family safe (one member of which, my daughter, is severely asthmatic and immuno compromised). And I refuse to be too scared to live my life and to h*ll with politicians!

growstuff

Scones

And that's the problem isn't it Growstuff. We have to live with this system which won't change.

Indeed! The problem the UK has at the moment is that a small majority of voters in certain constituencies has resulted in a huge majority in the HoC, which is not representative of the electorate. People like JRM can get away with saying what he does because he can't be challenged in a meaningful way. His persona hides some real nastiness. A smaller majority would result in some compromises and MPs' being more accountable.

Jacob Rees-Mogg did get a big majority, albeit reduced last time.
His majority was 14,729 and he did get over 50% of the vote, with a 76% turnout.

As I said, I believe he is a good constituency MP whatever anyone thinks of him.

I’ve been pondering on this throughout the evening. And I just can’t comprehend why so many people think that JRM is a kind caring person who cares about the people of this country. I’m baffled by it.

Scones

And that's the problem isn't it Growstuff. We have to live with this system which won't change.

Indeed! The problem the UK has at the moment is that a small majority of voters in certain constituencies has resulted in a huge majority in the HoC, which is not representative of the electorate. People like JRM can get away with saying what he does because he can't be challenged in a meaningful way. His persona hides some real nastiness. A smaller majority would result in some compromises and MPs' being more accountable.

Sorry I misunderstood, Lemongrove, I misread the tone of your last post before mine.

It’s not the law in England that you have to wear one, but most people that I see in shops/ buses seem to have one on

And most people I see don’t.

Barely anyone I see wears a mask any more outside of hospital settings (where people seem suddenly capable of wearing one for extended lengths of time).

I don't think the Tory 'snowflakes' mentality around masks - which is where JRM is coming from is remotely helpful.

It's such an odd stance to take. Masks protect others. Why wouldn't mask wearing be encouraged?

And that's the problem isn't it Growstuff. We have to live with this system which won't change.

icanhandthemback

I'm afraid I don't understand why wearing a mask is such an ordeal, Lemongrove. If we end up wearing masks for years it isn't the greatest hardship we will have suffered. Wearing a mask and being able to go out where you want must be better than not wearing one and ending back in lockdown or worse. I don't particularly like wearing them but even if it doesn't stop Covid, it might stop the serious winter bugs that put a strain on the Health Service.

I have already said that I wear a mask if going into a shop/ dentist/ GP etc which is my choice.
It’s not the law in England that you have to wear one, but most people that I see in shops/ buses seem to have one on.
Some find them horribly restrictive and don’t wear one, especially younger people ( from teens to forties) but older people often do.

Scones

lemongrove

You will have to take that up with his constituency voters in Somerset Scones.

Trouble is I am in Somerset (not Mogg's part thankfully before I get the blame) and actually know some of them. They seem like such nice people I can't believe they would support those views.

Maybe they didn't vote for him. 27,948 people (49.6% of those who voted) in his constituency didn't and 23.6% of the electorate didn't vote at all.

Vaccinations reduce the severity for symptoms in most people, but the best way to avoid being infected in the first place is to avoid contact with other people's exhaled droplets. Ideally, we should keep away from other people completely, but that's not possible, so the next best option is to create a barrier between infected droplets and oneself. It's not difficult to understand. It's not either/or with vaccinations and masks/social distancing. It's both.

lemongrove

You will have to take that up with his constituency voters in Somerset Scones.

Trouble is I am in Somerset (not Mogg's part thankfully before I get the blame) and actually know some of them. They seem like such nice people I can't believe they would support those views.

lemongrove

Vaccination is the key, rather than masking, particularly the sort of thin cotton masks that most people wear ( and rarely wash I bet.)
It’s a divisive subject that we all have differing opinions about.

But we're not all right!

I'm afraid I don't understand why wearing a mask is such an ordeal, Lemongrove. If we end up wearing masks for years it isn't the greatest hardship we will have suffered. Wearing a mask and being able to go out where you want must be better than not wearing one and ending back in lockdown or worse. I don't particularly like wearing them but even if it doesn't stop Covid, it might stop the serious winter bugs that put a strain on the Health Service.

Sorry for the typos.

We have vaccination and it does work but we have to protect our most vulnerable. I feel very strongly about this. I’d do whatever it tool to protect those that can’t protect themselves.
And to have listen to jrm spotting nonsense well you can’t make sense of nonsense as my mum used to say. I Hr should hang his head in shame.

Vaccination is the key, rather than masking, particularly the sort of thin cotton masks that most people wear ( and rarely wash I bet.)
It’s a divisive subject that we all have differing opinions about.

No that’s not true. The majority would if they thought it was helping others I live here . You don’t.

Yes he might. But if you and others wore one he’d be protected.

Granniesunite

In Scotland we still wear masks in enclosed places, public transport, restaurants etc. I’m proud of our people protecting themselves and each other but most especially our most vulnerable, the most precious in our society.

Granniesunite the people in Scotland have no choice, they have to wear masks, if it weren't the law then no doubt people there wouldn’t always choose to wear them.

You would likely have to keep the population masked up for years because the virus isn’t going anywhere, it will just mutate just as flu usually kills thousands each year, sadly.
I think that mask wearing in public places may come back for the Winter period, but that will be all.
Incidentally my DGS would just rip his mask off if he felt like it or not bother to put it on in the first place.

In Scotland we still wear masks in enclosed places, public transport, restaurants etc. I’m proud of our people protecting themselves and each other but most especially our most vulnerable, the most precious in our society.

lemongrove

Jane I have a vulnerable DGS who can’t social distance or make well thought out decisions, but there are millions of people who can and I don’t expect the rules/ decisions by government on Covid to be for the minority, it has to be for society at large, and we do our best for the more vulnerable in our own families.Life is a lot more complex for some people, that’s very true.My DGS has had both Covid jabs and the flu jab, as am sure that your DD has, which is a big relief.
Life itself is a problem for my DGS ( aged 17) and your adult DD is probably the same, it’s very hard.

I disagree. The government has a commitment to make laws which consider minorities, apart from any moral considerations. Wearing a mask to protect others is a small step with high value outcomes. There is little doubt that they reduce transmission, not only from one person to another but by reducing the airborne particles in an enclosed space. Viruses, unlike bacteria which carry on multiplying, are only effective if they find a receptor. If they don't find one within a relatively short time, they die (not that they were ever properly alive in the first place). Masks are one tool, but a cheap and effective one.