“By the end of winter, pretty much everyone in Germany will probably be vaccinated, recovered or dead,”

grandtanteJE65

Saying that the choice to be vaccinated or not is and should be up to the individual in any democracy sounds fine.

However, this particular virus is apparently very difficult to control.

In my childhood parents could not enrol their children at school in Denmark unless the child had been vaccinated against small-pox and I believed, but apparently am wrong about this, that the same thing applied in Scotland. I was certainly vaccinated well before my first school day and the small-pox epidemic I remember didn't take place when I was five, but when I was nine or ten.

Danish parents who refused to allow their children to be vaccinated against small-pox had to have them taught at home.

So why all this fuss about it being unethical to demand that we are vaccinated now against a virus that is costing a great many people their lives, and which does not seem to be going away any time soon?

I find it hard to believe, but it is said that the Austrian anti-vaxxers believe that along with the vaccine they will be injected with a miniture GPS so their government can keep track of where they are at all times.

Can people really be so stupid?

Rhetorical question - of course the can are are!

I didn't think vaccination for small pox had been compulsory in Scotland, so I googled. There was a smallpox outbreak in Glasgow in the fifties, but vaccination ceased to be compulsory anywhere in the UK in 1948.

I think is unhelpful to characterise everyone who doesn't want the vaccine as a conspiracy theorist who believes they will be injected with microchips; some people are just scared of it, or haven't been convinced of the real need for it, or something like that.

Here's a quote I found online when I was googling compulsory vaccination. It dates from 1893.

I have three times been fined in the Glasgow Sheriff Court for not having my boy, now nearly 5 years old, vaccinated . . . The Barony Parochial Board here know that it is not my intention to have any of my children vaccinated, and this not from any religious 'fad' or peculiar view, but simply because I prefer not to take the physical risk involved in the operation.

Posted too soon. I DO think they should make face coverings compulsory again. Judging by the amount of people I see without them - especially now winter’s coming on - I think we’re getting too complacent

I think there’s still a perception that in otherwise healthy people, Covid is no big deal, and to a certain extent, I think that’s what drives the anti Vaxxers. My partner and I had Covid really badly in February before we could be vaccinated. We’re both CEV and very lucky to have escaped hospital, but it laid us both flat for nearly three weeks and took months to recover from.

Before we had Covid I was in two minds about vaccination, as there were stories of the vaccine being rushed and not tested properly, followed by reports of blood clots. A couple of younger friends who had had it - obviously mildly- had said it was just like having flu for a couple of days. Boy did we change our minds once we’d had it. We couldn’t wait to get vaccinated and for myself, I never, ever want to feel like that again so will continue with booster shots for as long as necessary.

A typical case in point was our young neighbours - both anti vaxxers until a few weeks ago when they both contracted Covid and one of them ended up in hospital needing oxygen therapy. Both are fit and healthy and thought they were invincible, and both have now booked their first vaccination having had to wait 28 days from first contracting the virus. They agreed with us - the vaccine is the way to go and had they realised how bad Covid could be, they would have had it sooner. I don’t agree with compulsory medical treatment of any kind, but looking at the figures for the UK and seeing what’s going on in Europe, it’s hard to know what else to do.

Vaccine passports in France led to huge numbers more getting vaccinated SueDonim. I think the first announcement back in the early summer caused over a million bookings by the next morning and there has been a similar surge with the second one about people losing their pass sanitaire six months and five weeks after second dose.
I think that you can't really talk about Covid in 'Europe" in any meaningful way. Numbers are high in some countries and still low in others. Here in France you could see numbers go up when primary schools dropped masks (now back on again). It rose in 0-9, then 30-40, then 70-79, presumably as children, parents and grandparents were infected. Spain never stopped masks in schools and they are still doing quite well. I gather the infection numbers, linked to low vaccination rates, are much higher in some parts of Germany than others.
Every country is different.

Saying that the choice to be vaccinated or not is and should be up to the individual in any democracy sounds fine.

However, this particular virus is apparently very difficult to control.

In my childhood parents could not enrol their children at school in Denmark unless the child had been vaccinated against small-pox and I believed, but apparently am wrong about this, that the same thing applied in Scotland. I was certainly vaccinated well before my first school day and the small-pox epidemic I remember didn't take place when I was five, but when I was nine or ten.

Danish parents who refused to allow their children to be vaccinated against small-pox had to have them taught at home.

So why all this fuss about it being unethical to demand that we are vaccinated now against a virus that is costing a great many people their lives, and which does not seem to be going away any time soon?

I find it hard to believe, but it is said that the Austrian anti-vaxxers believe that along with the vaccine they will be injected with a miniture GPS so their government can keep track of where they are at all times.

Can people really be so stupid?

Rhetorical question - of course the can are are!

I’m another who finds it hard to accept something such as vaccination being made compulsory. Can you imagine the videos that would appear on social media of people being held down and forcibly injected again their will?

I suppose vaccine passports might make people get vaccinated, although the evidence for that is pretty thin, as I understand it.

I don’t despise the unvaccinated, I am more baffled and bemused at their thinking. I don’t think I know anyone who is unvaccinated, although I do know someone in the US who is vaccinated but has become an anti-vaxxer. That’s truly bewildering!

I certainly don’t despise people who have not been vaccinated I have regular contact with someone who has not been vaccinated
I have had mine so it’s up to them their chance to take

Lucca

maddyone

I realise it’s not nice, and I feel wary about admitting it, but I actually despise people who refuse to be vaccinated. I’m very afraid that our way of life has been, and continues to be threatened by this horrible virus. It’s racing through Europe now, and I don’t really care what the politicians say, our numbers are far too high as well, despite vaccination. So I feel a certain amount of anger towards those people who are refusers the vaccine. We need everyone to think not only of themselves, but think of everyone else too. I have absolutely zilch understanding of people who are rabidly anti vaccination.

I’m with you on this, including feeling a bit odd about Admitting it !

Me too!

According to the ONS 92.8% of adults in the U.K. have Covid antibodies, which can only be a good thing surely?

I agree with your posts Alegrias1

I would very much like for everyone to be vaccinated, but I am totally against mandatory vaccination/ health intervention at any cost. It opens up a Pandoras Box of may/could/will become compulsory in order to do things we now take for granted…

Kim19

Please someone update me on the vaccination requirement status for anyone visiting this country at the moment? We are not good at closing our borders when it seems like a very good idea. Am I correct in thinking that all quarantining is finished with?

Gov.uk website give full details of vaccination status requirements and testing required

Germany has a history of having the highest anti vaxx groups.

Does Germany have low uptake of all vaccines?

Kim19

Please someone update me on the vaccination requirement status for anyone visiting this country at the moment? We are not good at closing our borders when it seems like a very good idea. Am I correct in thinking that all quarantining is finished with?

Good question.

Latest from NI from BBC News.

Ministers warn Covid has taken 'firm grip' in NI again
Senior politicians in Northern Ireland have warned that coronavirus has "once again taken a firm grip across our society".

The warning follows recommendations from the Stormont executive that people should to work from home where possible, amid rising cases in Northern Ireland

Ministers are also advising the public to limit their social contacts and wear face coverings in indoor settings.

In a joint statement, ministers said: "Hospital admissions are rising and modelling indicates that admissions will increase further in the coming weeks.

"The clear advice from public health experts is that an intervention is now required."

Please someone update me on the vaccination requirement status for anyone visiting this country at the moment? We are not good at closing our borders when it seems like a very good idea. Am I correct in thinking that all quarantining is finished with?

I love the statement in the original post, very raw and true

This pandemic has to be managed instead of be perpetuated by the idiocy of human beings

Time will tell of course but from what I’ve been reading recently I am reasonably optimistic about our country this winter.
Apparently the plan now is to offer boosters to all over 18 year olds.
Maybe the reluctant five million amongst us will see what is happening in Europe and come forward for their jabs.
Of course there will always be a hard core of people who remain suspicious.

maddyone

I realise it’s not nice, and I feel wary about admitting it, but I actually despise people who refuse to be vaccinated. I’m very afraid that our way of life has been, and continues to be threatened by this horrible virus. It’s racing through Europe now, and I don’t really care what the politicians say, our numbers are far too high as well, despite vaccination. So I feel a certain amount of anger towards those people who are refusers the vaccine. We need everyone to think not only of themselves, but think of everyone else too. I have absolutely zilch understanding of people who are rabidly anti vaccination.

I’m with you on this, including feeling a bit odd about Admitting it !

The truth is, covid will continue to seek out the unvaccinated, and unfortunately also the immune compromised, wherever they are. Nobody is out of the woods yet anywhere in the world. As we still have 5m unvaccinated adults in the UK that includes us.

And it not just about covid is it or vaccination levels, it's possible that enforced medical treatment could lead to all sorts of unexpected consequences.

It will be interesting to see what other lessons might come from enforced vaccination then it may be those countries who have to learn lessons from those who didnt enforce vaccinations. The real consequences of these type of decisions are often felt years down the line.

The Australian share of the total population double vaccinated is 71%. I wouldn't be too smug just yet.

We have approaching 90 % double vaccinated here in everyone 16 and over . Why ? Because you can’t go to most of the shops, you are likely to lose your job, you can’t go into a restaurant etc if not . Amazing what a bit of coercion will do. No doubt the Austrians watch and learn.

Other things, not based on any scientific proof but on various things I've read:

The 12-week gap we used leads to greater and longer-lasting immunity than the 4 week gap.

We're ahead on booster doses.

Other countries all didn't prioritise older people first so there are more older people susceptible even though the overall vaccinated rate is similar.

We got the delta wave earlier and the other countries are just experiencing it now.

The plan of opening up earlier so that we had an exit wave in the summer was actually quite sensible.

Could be all of these, or none of them.

The CEO of AZ has a different take on it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10233473/Europe-hit-wave-Covid-partly-didnt-use-AstraZenecas-jab-suggests-vaccine-maker.html