So what would GransNetters do?

This article from Sky News yesterday explains the hospitalisation issue well, and (importantly) why the experts don’t know yet what will happen over the next few weeks.
news.sky.com/story/omicron-what-do-covid-hospitalisation-figures-in-london-tell-us-about-how-severe-the-new-variant-is-12501451

that hosp consultant was talking about Covid patients in ICU.
the vast majority of which are unvaccinated. in his hosp.
others are quoting figures that the majority of covid patients in hosp are vaccinated.
so that is two different groups. both statements are true.

I've opted out of two social meetings recently as they were with people I didn't need or particularly want to see

Well V3ra I think there’s a fair bit of this going on these days. An easy cop out from meeting up with people you don’t want to see.

A handy excuse this next month or so to swerve socialising - not because it’s against the rules (it isn’t), not because it’s unsafe (it isn’t providing people are vaccinated & have taken necessary precautions and done their own risk assessment and possibly done a LFT) but just because they can without causing offence - a handy hook to peg people’s ‘get outs’ onto this winter.

The new rules for Scotland sound sensible for us in England to I think but I wouldn't go further than that at this point.

Josieann

growstuff

M0nica

Usually they use a seven day moving average, in order to oron out the weekly variations.

Statisticians use both - and have been doing for months.

I couldn't help but notice that the BBC has recently been very inconsistent in this respect. It either confuses me, or makes me suspicious.

What on earth is confusing about comparing the same day each week?

I'd just give up growstuff . I have. We're not doing evidence based arguments, we're doing "some bloke off the telly said it so it must be true"

growstuff

M0nica

Usually they use a seven day moving average, in order to oron out the weekly variations.

Statisticians use both - and have been doing for months.

I couldn't help but notice that the BBC has recently been very inconsistent in this respect. It either confuses me, or makes me suspicious.

M0nica

Usually they use a seven day moving average, in order to oron out the weekly variations.

Statisticians use both - and have been doing for months.

Usually they use a seven day moving average, in order to oron out the weekly variations.

Josieann

Why are hospitalizations and deaths all of a sudden being compared with 7 days ago? Maybe if we compare with 1, 2 or even 3 days ago there is no increase?

They're not being compared with statistics 7 days ago all of a sudden. It's one way they've been reported for months.

The reason is that figures reported are usually lower over the weekend for administrative reasons, so comparing (for example) Sunday or Wednesday figures from one week to the next gives a clearer idea of trends.

M0nica

growstuff November isn't relevant. It was almost entirely people with the Delta variant of COVID. . Omicron had barely got started. The majority of cases now are omicron and I am quoting what a hospital consultant said on Radio 4 this morning.

The evidence I gave does anything but 'play into the hands of those who argue against vaccination'. It is a strong argument FOR vaccination.

Your elderly out-of-date figures do play into their hands, however.

I quoted the latest objective statistics available. One hospital consultant's testimony is anecdotal.

The number of deaths from Omicron are rising - there is evidence for that. Whoever the hospital consultant was, he/she couldn't possibly know how vaccinations affect those with Omicron.

Why are hospitalizations and deaths all of a sudden being compared with 7 days ago? Maybe if we compare with 1, 2 or even 3 days ago there is no increase?

growstuff November isn't relevant. It was almost entirely people with the Delta variant of COVID. . Omicron had barely got started. The majority of cases now are omicron and I am quoting what a hospital consultant said on Radio 4 this morning.

The evidence I gave does anything but 'play into the hands of those who argue against vaccination'. It is a strong argument FOR vaccination.

Your elderly out-of-date figures do play into their hands, however.

The majority of patients admitted to hospital with Covid in the four weeks up to 28 November had had at least two doses of vaccination. The percentage has increased from earlier in the year for the obvious reason that more people have been vaccinated.

fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent/

People reduce their risk of being hospitalised or being very seriously ill, if they are vaccinated, but I do wish people would get facts right. Misinterpretation of facts plays into the hands of people who argue against vaccination.

M0nica

I think all unvaccinated patients should be separated from other patients regardless of what their medical problem may be.

Why?

M0nica

Todays figures show cases of COVID being far higher than this time last year, but hospital admissions and deaths being far lower, especially among the elderly, who are almost all triple jabbed.

I simply do not understand where these much vaunted science advisors are getting their forecasts from, they seem to be on target for numbers, but their doom laden forecasts on hospital admissions and deaths, currently, are not backed up by the actual figures.

Most of us are taking a reasoned approach to current conditions and socialising with care and with only immediate family and friends.

Lokdown is unnecessary.

Which figures are you looking at? Today's PHE statistics show that both hospitalisations and deaths increased compared with 7 days ago.

The so-called "doom laden forecasts" of scientific advisers are usually worst case scenarios, but thankfully the public itself tends to change its own behaviour, so the forecasts are not usually reached.

I think all unvaccinated patients should be separated from other patients regardless of what their medical problem may be.

No.

Sarnia

No. I would be working on getting the unvaccinated sorted out. I heard an ICU consultant saying that the majority of his inpatients are unvaccinated. What puzzles him is that if they contact Covid they are bombarded with a cocktail of drugs, all with side effects. Makes zero sense to me.

Can anyone explain to me whether these unvaccinated covid patients in ICU actually came in with covid or whether they picked it up while in hospital for something else? Surely a fair percentage must have come there from other wards where transmissions are rampant? In that case do they not need to be kept apart from the very start of entry?

I agree with Sarnia (I heard the same interview.) It is the unvaccinated that are causing all the overload in hospitals. Sanction them, and leave us to get on with our lives.

Germanshepherdsmum

I was lucky to get a supply from the NHS website just before they ran out. Unfortunately living in the sticks we only have one pharmacy within miles so little opportunity for people round here to get supplies, same in many rural areas.

Suggest keep trying on NHS website I just tried and they are available

Where I live test kits are available in pharmacies, libraries, community centres and the shopping mall. You just have to go and collect them. If one place has run out, try another. It’s the same with the website. Try again later. But I am teaching my granny to suck eggs surely.
Some people won’t bother to test but if I do and stick to people and places that I trust then I can’t think of anything else to keep myself safe. I do not want another full lockdown.

No. I would be working on getting the unvaccinated sorted out. I heard an ICU consultant saying that the majority of his inpatients are unvaccinated. What puzzles him is that if they contact Covid they are bombarded with a cocktail of drugs, all with side effects. Makes zero sense to me.

I was lucky to get a supply from the NHS website just before they ran out. Unfortunately living in the sticks we only have one pharmacy within miles so little opportunity for people round here to get supplies, same in many rural areas.

Germanshepherdsmum

But Rosie does everyone always test before going everywhere, hairdressers for instance? And we know that the lft is by no means infallible even if you can get hold of one.

Can only speak for myself I test before going out You can get them from NHS website just have to try a few times
Several places in our town have them just takes a bit of effort to find them