Western Australia bans unvaccinated parents from visiting their sick children in hospitals

The answer is just get vaccinated. Surely no one wants to put a sick child at any more risk. The parent have to decide what’s important.

Doodledog

This is one of those difficult situations where one person's rights conflict with another's.

If people complaining about illiberality had a grandchild in hospital (particularly a clinically vulnerable grandchild) would they be happy to have unvaccinated visitors around them?

I've posted this story before, but when my son was born he spent his first few days on a special care unit because it was a difficult birth. He was a strong baby, but others in the unit were tiny premature babies or had other problems. One of the doctors on the SCU had come from abroad, and claimed to have had TB vaccinations. This wasn't true, and it turned out that the doctor was infected. All the special care babies, including my son, were brought in for regular X rays, blood tests and prophylactic medicine. He was less than a month old.

I will never forget how helpless we felt, and how awful it was to know that if the doctor had had a vaccination we would not be going through the weeks of worry we had. As it turned out my son was ok, but that was down to luck.

I am pretty hard line about vaccinations, probably because of that incident, as I really wouldn't want any parents to have to go through it. If that means that those who have opted out of the vaccination programme can't see their children, that might be a price worth paying so that other, arguably more responsible, parents don't lose theirs altogether.

The TB vaccine used in the UK 'is 70-80% effective against the most severe forms of TB, such as TB meningitis. However, it is less effective in preventing the form of TB that affects the lungs'. vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/bcg-vaccine.
Depending on which country the doctor came from, a different vaccine may have been used. I find it hard to believe that said doctor did not have to prove their vaccination status on appointment. Unfortunately vaccines are not infallible

Surely children receiving vaccines in school prior to Covid must be a known in Australia. Probably part and parcel of being allowed entry to schooling.

This is punishing kids for having parents who won't comply; I was in hospital as a 6 year old when parents were only allowed in twice a week. I was scared (once I'd come round from being unconscious for a week), lonely and bored. I didn't realise that my Mum wasn't allowed to visit and nobody explained. I never forgave her until I found out what the circumstances were.

I agree Daisend1. In the UK I currently have no confidence in our government and little confidence in the judiciary. If we cannot trust the medical professionals, who literally hold our lives in their hands, then we really are doomed. Sorry to sound melodramatic but that’s how I feel!

I would want what is best for my children and if we can't have confidence in the medical profession what hope is there.

Alegrias1 I don't think we ever thought Australia was Liberal! Libertarian possibly. I have no problem with compulsory vaccination before entering any public space, be it shop, hospital, cinema, theatre. A vaccine passport is required in much of Europe. It is tragic that hospitalised children cannot see their parents, it is tragic when someone dies unnecessarily of Covid. I note that vaccination for measles has also dropped off here, which is extremely worrying. x

greenlady102

Josieann

That is so sad, and in my mind the wrong thing to do. It could set child against parent, feeling rejected at a time when they need them most.
Very frightening and scarred for life.

but would you not get vaccinated if your child needed you?

I think I probably would greenlady because in my life I have always put my children's needs first.

As Headmistress I have occasionally acted in loco parentis for a child in hospital. The minute the parent is present the change in mood in the child is palpable and indescribable.
I would prefer that tests determined whether the unvaccinated parent can visit. A child, while being disappointed, will accept the situation if there is a positive result, but not otherwise.

Callistemon21

^They are doing something right.^

Is this the right thing to do though? Or a step too far?
Why now? Is it because their measures did not work anyway?

These children must be very frightened.

Well, the parents know what to do, then. Just get vaccinated

Two of my DC live in Perth. As it is one of the most remote major city in the world the powers that be were able to man the barricades and allow only the most essential traffic over the borders (with exceptions for sportsmen and celebrities)
They were due to allow in vaccinated visitors, this month, but have now changed their minds.
My family is of the opinion that it's time to accept that they can't stay isolated for ever, and they should open up the borders. Families have been kept apart for too long.
As for keeping sick children apart from their families.....even if they got vaccinated the child would probably be due for discharge, in many cases, before the vaccine became effective. As long as tests are done I see no reason to prevent visits.

Can children visit elderly parents?
WA currently has a chaotic health system so maybe sensible

Sick children should not suffer because of something their parents have or haven’t done. Masked visitors with negative tests should be permitted to be with and comfort their children. Of course they should also be encouraged to have the vaccine.
This type of thing is exactly why I would never return to Australia having been there in the past.

Far from being liberal, Australia has behaved in a totalitarian manner throughout. I have no sympathy for tennis players trying to get the country to change its rules - rules are rules after all - but the thinking behind them is not liberal. The country is denying people their basic human rights just as the UK government has denied us ours. These have been whisked away in the interests of protecting an NHS that has been asset stripped in years of under-investment. How people can be so blinkered as to believe otherwise I have no idea. What I do know is that all those I have come into contact with as bereavement therapist and who have been unable to visit/say goodbye to their loved ones certainly feel their human rights have been trampled on.

We can’t compare the UK to Australia or NZ. We are an overcrowded island, they are sparsely populated compared to us.

Josieann

That is so sad, and in my mind the wrong thing to do. It could set child against parent, feeling rejected at a time when they need them most.
Very frightening and scarred for life.

but would you not get vaccinated if your child needed you?

nterested

I'm tired about hearing about 'Freedom for unvaccinated people'. What about the the freedom for people who work in hospitals? How do you think they feel when they have to risk their lives and the lives of their families for people who think they know better?
People who are working hard in hospitals don't have time to set up public demonstrations, let us speak up for them!

Yes yes yes !! Agree 100%

Undines absolutely agree with you! A little bit of research shows thousands of adverse events from this vaccine, cardiac and neurological particularly, some quite serious, and whilst this information wasn’t available initially people can now make a more informed decision based on their own medical history. Some had an adverse reaction to their first vaccination which made them anxious to take any more. These are not anti-vaxers - why would they have gone for the first one if they were?! Everyone has their own reasons and those who have been fully vaccinated should not be worried by the unvaccinated as they have protected themselves hopefully. Equally the unvaccinated should not be persecuted for making an informed choice. I can think of nothing worse than a sick child being in hospital and parents not being able to visit, it’s emotionally damaging to both, the same as not being able to be with a dying relative.

They certainly have a better record for Covid than us as does NZ whose government are also raged at by many citizens.

I think they've been trying to hold back the waves - let's hope the worst variants are over before a deluge hits them (which it seems to be now).

Perth Childrens Hospital current rules and advice:
One unvaccinated essential visitor will be allowed to enter the hospital to accompany their baby or child with additional public health safety measures in place. These will be advised when you arrive. Please allow some extra time.

If you are an unvaccinated standard visitor, you will not be allowed to enter.

It sounds as if one unvaccinated person will be allowed in with a child as long as they allow time for a test to be carried out and to put on PPE gear.
It doesn't say if the essential visitor will be allowed to return again to see their distressed child.

Sorry re last post should read “unless 90% of population have their vaccines ….” Need an edit button please !

Really tough question !

I do not think vaccines should EVER be mandated, however, if vaccines are taken by 90% of the population there’s a good chance of some outbreaks of disease aka measles and TB both made a comeback here in the UK, measles can be a very nasty disease and is very contagious.

Very sad for the children, what if the parents couldn’t have the vaccine for medical reasons ?

They certainly have a better record for Covid than us as does NZ whose government are also raged at by many citizens.

150,000 dead in the UK and Covid still with us and many still quite unwell and suffering long term affects yet we are acting like it’s gone forever !

My oldest son is autistic and went to a special school. He was born in 1991 and had the MMR the following year as we were all advised to. We have video footage to show how he from a normal, happy baby to an unhappy, disabled toddler. I have never said the MMR caused the autism but exacerbated what may otherwise have remained dormant in a vulnerable case. We found out years later that in a child with asthma and allergies, as he was, caution should have been exercised with this particular vaccine. It was early days for the MMR and there were some bad batches at this time. We feel he was probably affected by one of these. We will never know. Our second son had the first MMR vaccine but not the booster as reports were coming out about possible dangers of it by then. Our daughter, born in 1996, did not have the MMR but we paid for her to have the measles and rubella vaccines a year apart. I am definitely not anti-vaccine and think everyone who is able to should have the covid vaccine but I do think that, if parents take tests that prove they are negative, then they should be allowed to be with their children in hospital.

Doodledog

This is one of those difficult situations where one person's rights conflict with another's.

If people complaining about illiberality had a grandchild in hospital (particularly a clinically vulnerable grandchild) would they be happy to have unvaccinated visitors around them?

I've posted this story before, but when my son was born he spent his first few days on a special care unit because it was a difficult birth. He was a strong baby, but others in the unit were tiny premature babies or had other problems. One of the doctors on the SCU had come from abroad, and claimed to have had TB vaccinations. This wasn't true, and it turned out that the doctor was infected. All the special care babies, including my son, were brought in for regular X rays, blood tests and prophylactic medicine. He was less than a month old.

I will never forget how helpless we felt, and how awful it was to know that if the doctor had had a vaccination we would not be going through the weeks of worry we had. As it turned out my son was ok, but that was down to luck.

I am pretty hard line about vaccinations, probably because of that incident, as I really wouldn't want any parents to have to go through it. If that means that those who have opted out of the vaccination programme can't see their children, that might be a price worth paying so that other, arguably more responsible, parents don't lose theirs altogether.

We had a similar issue when DD2 was born. She was premature and small for dates (my Mum was dying and died that week). Eventually made it home to receive a call saying a nurse from prem unit had TB. Very scary time though it turned out that it was a different hospital.

I am due to have what may turn out to be major surgery that was due in early January. I am keeping my head down, despite the discomfort, as I am wary of unvaccinated staff. If I end up with the more intrusive surgery the last thing I want is covid, even the milder version.

But I wouldn't want a child surrounded by other visitors (or staff) in a public ward who were unvaccinated.

Vaccinated people can still carry the virus and pass it on.

If tests and PPE work, why not insist on parents testing and using PPE?
And in what hospital are children in huge wards with visitors surrounding them?

Personally I think it’s the sensible thing to do to get vaccinated provided one is fairly confident, as I am, that the vaccine will do no harm. I have had all my vaccines, as did my children (and long ago when young). However I do think that bodily autonomy is an inalienable right and we go down a very slippery slope towards an Orwellian nightmare if we begin to remove those rights from the population. I am horrified that Australia has done this, without apparent regard for the long term psychological health of those involved, and am glad I don’t live there! It is bad enough that the government here are continuing to impose severe and rather ridiculous restrictions on care homes, as reported in various newspapers, far and above what the rest of us have now.