200000 Covid Deaths - ONS Data

Get well soon volver.

I’m pretty sure that an awful lot of those 200,000 people would still be alive now if they hadn’t caught it. If complacency isn’t helping to bring about the increase in cases what is? I’m sure someone on here will tell me.

Again, evidence?

Personally, I think it is the aliens - and of course i have no evidence - but that doesn't seem to count for much these days.

Thanks maddyone.

Hope you soon feel much better volver

volver Hope you soon feel better.

Thank you everyone.

M0nica

^I’m pretty sure that an awful lot of those 200,000 people would still be alive now if they hadn’t caught it. If complacency isn’t helping to bring about the increase in cases what is? I’m sure someone on here will tell me.^

Again, evidence?

Personally, I think it is the aliens - and of course i have no evidence - but that doesn't seem to count for much these days.

Can you give evidence to say they wouldn’t still be alive?

*MayBee 70. I have no argument with your overall figures just your belief that complacency is the cause of the current surge.

All I would say is that the majority of those who died, especially before the vaccination was introduced, were very old, frail, in care or very ill, so it is probable that many of them would have died of other causes by now.

If you look at the detailed statistics, www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/excessdeathsinenglandandwales/march2020todecember2021#excess-deaths-by-age-group deaths in the oldest age groups from causes other than COVID dropped leading to a suggestion that those who would have died of other causes died, instead of COVID, or rather, had tested positive for COVID when they died, which is not at all the same, as having the illness contribute to their death.

Over 40,000 people caught COVID in hospital while being treated for other illnesses. www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/26/40600-people-likely-caught-covid-while-hospital-inpatients-in-england If they died COVID would be listed on their death certificates, even though the true cause of death was their underlying illnesses. This is even more true of those who caught COVID in hospices.

That a death certificate lists COVID among medical conditions someone had on death does not necessarily mean that the disease played any part in their death, merely that they tested positive within 28 days of death.

M0nica

*MayBee 70. I have no argument with your overall figures just your belief that complacency is the cause of the current surge.

All I would say is that the majority of those who died, especially before the vaccination was introduced, were very old, frail, in care or very ill, so it is probable that many of them would have died of other causes by now.

If you look at the detailed statistics, www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/excessdeathsinenglandandwales/march2020todecember2021#excess-deaths-by-age-group deaths in the oldest age groups from causes other than COVID dropped leading to a suggestion that those who would have died of other causes died, instead of COVID, or rather, had tested positive for COVID when they died, which is not at all the same, as having the illness contribute to their death.

Over 40,000 people caught COVID in hospital while being treated for other illnesses. www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/26/40600-people-likely-caught-covid-while-hospital-inpatients-in-england If they died COVID would be listed on their death certificates, even though the true cause of death was their underlying illnesses. This is even more true of those who caught COVID in hospices.

That a death certificate lists COVID among medical conditions someone had on death does not necessarily mean that the disease played any part in their death, merely that they tested positive within 28 days of death.

Your final paragraph is incorrect Monica, in that there has been the facility to list Covid in Part 2 of the death certificate if it is not considered to be a contributory factor in a death.
Here’s the ONS explanation.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/measuringpreexistinghealthconditionsindeathcertificationdeathsinvolvingcovid19march2020

I have had two Covid vaccinations and a booster and would have any future boosters I was offered. If I felt ill I would not mix with others.

However what I am not prepared to do is put my life on hold, constantly mask wear ( they are by no means as effective as you think especially when stupid people wear them under their nose!) and expect young people to miss school, not socialise with friends, live with significantly worse mental health than pre Covid ( I work with adolescents I’ve seen it including in my own grandchildren) .

We must live with Covid as we have always lived with Flu. Be sensible but not live in a twilight world , life is for living

Covid is not flu. I thought that this had been established.

I didn’t say Covid was flu but we have similar death rates and we don’t panic every year about flu. Let’s keep up regular vaccinations and live with it

TwiceAsNice

I have had two Covid vaccinations and a booster and would have any future boosters I was offered. If I felt ill I would not mix with others.

However what I am not prepared to do is put my life on hold, constantly mask wear ( they are by no means as effective as you think especially when stupid people wear them under their nose!) and expect young people to miss school, not socialise with friends, live with significantly worse mental health than pre Covid ( I work with adolescents I’ve seen it including in my own grandchildren) .

We must live with Covid as we have always lived with Flu. Be sensible but not live in a twilight world , life is for living

I’m not saying that complacency is the root cause of the latest rise infections. Just that it isn’t helping and, as I’ve said living with covid doesn’t mean ignoring it ( which is what a lot of people choose to do). It’s still, for some, a very debilitating illness and none of us know how it will affect us. I might catch it and be very ill for quite a while, I might hardly know that I’ve had it or I might end up with long covid. I’m very concerned that people suffering from long covid are going to be as ignored as people with ME have been for years. Let’s not forget all of the young, healthy people that died of covid at the start of the pandemic.

I do appreciate it can be a debilitating illness for some and everyone must make their own decision . However I personally hope we never go back to the type of lockdown restrictions of the last few years and just saying I’m not prepared to if I have a choice

I am CEV Although I’ve had five boosters and I don’t expect lockdowns etc I have to say I would welcome more mask wearing regulations eg on public transport. I do not believe it would hurt people. But I guess I’m selfish wanting to go out and about….

I’d like to know how many people would have died if we hadn’t had lockdowns. And I think people have short memories because they’ve forgotten already how little we knew about the virus in spring 2020 and lockdowns gave the NHS ( remember them: the ones who were risking their lives to save ours) a bit of respite, during which time the health service began to understand how best to treat people. And when Johnson pulled us out of the last lockdown he really didn’t know that the virus had become less dangerous. I still think children were sent back to schools at a time when no one really knew how severe the variant at the time might be. He just struck lucky with that one.

And how many died of other illnesses that would otherwise have lived? DD came perilously close to death, thanks to inadequate medical attention when she was ill. For over a month until treatment began to be effective she was told she could collapse and die from a heart attack at any time. That was after she had spent 2 months trying to get her GP to take her symptoms seriously. He should have ordered a blood test when she first spoke to him on the phone. It was the first test that should have been ordered with her condition, but he forgot. After that he just refused to 'see' her.

But surely people couldn’t access medical services because the NHS was overrun by covid cases. So you could say that a lot of people didn’t die from covid but because covid clogged up the services that could have saved them?

If people needed services they were there. DH had a heart attack and bypass surgery. The ambulance was at the house withn minutes of me dialling 111 and he was in hospital and being treated within the hour.

It was people who did not seek medical help for conditions that should have been seen that suffered most, plus those like DD who were failed by incompetent GPs, who then tried to cover up for themselves by not sending her to hospital for 24 hours for urgent treatment.

Thankfully DD is not a woman to be trifled with and she just kept ringing the health authority until she got the scans her GP kept insisting were a prequisite for him 'seeing ' her again. He then ordered the blood tests that should have been ordered at the first appointment and went into full blown panic mode when he got the results and realised just how near death she was.

Like Volver, I am now testing positive for Covid. I am an 81 year old asthmatic, with several other health conditions. Thanks to having had two vaccines, and two boosters, I am not at all ill with this. Indeed, thought I had a summer cold and only tested so that I could reassure people at the groups I attend, Came back positive, so will not be attending those groups now.

However, I am not, and have not been willing to put my life on hold the rest of the time. I go out to shops, to meetings, even to a Festival, have people to stay and go to stay with other people. So, have totally avoided any of the mental health problems which have become the new epidemic.

I see people wearing masks, hanging of one ear, pushed onto their forehead, underneath the chin - rarely covering both mouth and nostrils. They have become rather like the posies carried during the Black Death as some sort of magical potion.

Twice in my adult life I can remember having flu so badly that I could not move at all - once when I was pregnant with twins and had three small children - I lay on the floor in my hallway desperately 'phoning Mum. MiL, Sister in law for help. A few years ago, felt so bad I had to telephone my son to ask him to come over to my house to close the bedroom curtains. If that proverbial fifty pound note had come in a window, I would not have been able to get to it. Thank goodness for the flu jab - even though I know it can be a bit hit and miss each year!!!

I know some people are much more ill than I am with covid - but that applies to so many health issues. Iam NOT going to live whatever I have left of my life in fear and trembling each day.

TwiceAsNice

I didn’t say Covid was flu but we have similar death rates and we don’t panic every year about flu. Let’s keep up regular vaccinations and live with it

No, we don't.

I still have a picture of an Italian morgue overflowing onto the street when Covid first hit. I think we are becoming complacent because many are still losing their lives and many cannot get the care they need because of clogged hospitals and staff absences.

nanna8

I still have a picture of an Italian morgue overflowing onto the street when Covid first hit. I think we are becoming complacent because many are still losing their lives and many cannot get the care they need because of clogged hospitals and staff absences.

People have short memories I’m afraid. I seem to remember the Italians begging us to take action at the time and were incredulous that we just seemed to be ignoring the pandemic.

My symptoms are so mild, -with any other illness would probably be carrying on as normal. Can understand how it is so often desribed as similar to 'flu - , whilst making my lunch I suddenly (and for no specific reason) found myself in tears and longing for my Mum. (She died aged 80years of age back in 1984!!).

Yes, I am tired, and very bored, and probably eating too much - had a sudden craving yesterday for jelly -made up one and enjoyed it for dessert at lunchtime. Think the last time I ate jelly was at christmas!!!

Franbern. My symptoms were mild too but I felt very down and weepy.