Women said we were genuine tonight.

Are we sure we have not missed a month and it is April Fools day ?

Not May Day - Ground Hog Day

Eloethan

The harm is men are expected to pay the same monthly membership fee as the ladies and the same council tax and to have a smaller selection of classes.

Frank

Ana

I can't remember the exact wording but the women had complained about this new member.
A few of them came to the existing men and they said we were most welcome in the class.
Over the next couple of weeks women did approach me in the shopping centre and on the street to say I was most welcome as they could tell I was genuine.

Frank

I can't believe this argument has been resurrected when it ran like The Mousetrap on its last airing.

Re-reading the OP, Frank didn't say any of the women had called him 'genuine'. That was his interpretation of their opinion of him and the other men after a discussion about the unwelcome attendance of a new member who seemed to have come to the class just to stare.

I can't imagine telling someone in the the gym that he is "genuine" nor being personal enough to say that I would rather he was there than sitting down at home. There seem to be very odd women in your aerobics class HUNTERF.

Sel if you lived in Manchester, actually you could pick and choose. If you are over 60 or under 16 and a Manchester resident, you can swim for free, subsidised by our council tax. This isn't discrimination, but part of a wider initiative to promote a healthy lifestyle for children and older people. The money to fund this used to come from central govt, but was part of the cuts.

Manchester run a swimming programme which offers unisex, female only or male only classes. They also offer mixed swimming, ladies only, under 5s, adults only and aqua natal. So there's something for everyone. They offer a similarly comprehensive array of fitness programmes.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with mixed sex classes as I believe in equality. You can't pick and choose. I would expect, if I wanted to and was good enough, I should be able to join an exercise class that was predominately male.

Is Frank using a Council funded facility - if so there should not be any discrimination. If it's a private health club, then fair enough, they can run whatever they can make pay.

Certain private clubs are still allowed to be single sex so I think it's OK for there to be women only (or men only if there's a demand) sessions in swimming pools, gyms, etc.

Some women do feel uncomfortable with men around (and not just Asian women) and I can't see the harm in having a small number of single sex sessions.

The political machinations and discrimination of these aerobic classes sound quite daunting.

I think I'll stick to walking. I can do that on my own, with the girls or in mixed company. And it's free!

I have just been with Andie to get some milk.
I met a lady from one of the classes I go to and as there is spare room in that class she suggested we should have a bring your partners week.
I don't think it would work with other classes as they are almost full.

Frank

As some of you know I am in Western Australia on a visit. In the local leisure centre there is an over 70s netball group. Includes one man. I am full of admiration. Netball is taken very seriously over here.

Thanks, ana. Felt a bit scared posting as I did, but you can't dilute equality and still have equality.

By which I'm agreeing that it is a great shame that some women don't get the chance to get much exercise because of the culture of their families. I'm not sure it is a good idea to encourage that kind of attitude to continue. I'm really not sure positive discrimination is a good idea, though I know there are strong arguments in favour of it sometimes.

With the points made in both your posts.

Well said, Bags, I agree.

Re your comment at 1106, elegran. It is the culture of negativity towards women in some parts of the world that is the real problem, not the allowing of mixed classes in a culture where men and women are supposed to be equals. When in Rome....

Hmmm,

Purely as an observer.....I've been keeping a bit quiet of late.
I just find it interesting Frank, that you feel the need to raise an old arguement knowing how much reaction it caused amongst the ladies in here. It would be lovely to see a few men come on here and give us some insight.
My dear old chap has cast his eye over proceedings and muttered somthing like, 'he likes to dominate things doesn't he?'. Hey ho!

I think Frank has a point. Why shouldn't men who do behave properly attend mixed aerobics classes? If the sports centre is run properly anyone (including women and/or children) who doesn't behave with propriety should be chucked out and banned from membership.

Essentially aerobics is just a form of dance. There is no reason why the classes shouldn't be for both genders, like most dance classes. I suspect it is not essential in these classes to wear clingingly tight clothes. If the women feel too much of their shape is on display for men's eyes, even when the men are behaving with propriety around them, clearly it is the women's problem and there is a simple solution – wear less revealingly clingy clothes for the class.

What Frank is arguing for, as I understand it, is no discriminatioin on the grounds of gender for classes run by the council which council tax helps support. If there was discrimination on the grounds of gender against women attending certain classes there'd, quite rightly, be outrage.

Frank, please drop the plea for a refund though. You have done well to reduce people's tendency to discriminate on the grounds of gender. Congratulate yourself and leave it at that

Elegran

Everybody has to pay anyway to go to classes at the centre I go to so if anybody has no money they can not go.

My daughters use the mixed classes and they will not use classes which do not admit men.

Frank

You are missing everyone else's point, Frank. It does not take a molestation to put women off feeling "exposed" in their gym clothes and vigorous movements to male view. (SOME women, others are not bothered and the ones who welcomed you are an example. Some smaller, weaker men would not be bothered in my previous axample, because they are confident on their ability to get out of any "situation" which developed.

But if, for example, a woman comes from a culture where women most definitely do not put themselves into a position where men could take advantage of their relative weakness (and there have been terrible examples recently of what can happen in tho

She may be at risk from osteoporosis from lack of sunshine and weight-bearing exercise, she may have menfolk who will not let her go to a mixed class, she may have no money of her own and be unable to afford to pay for a private class.

Is it better that she is excluded from an essential facility, than that active and independent men cannot join it?

Think of someone else besides yourself, Frank Would you like your daughters to be discriminated against like that?

Ella46

You are confirming my point.
The 30 plus people in the aerobics class acts as the audience.
I have never heard of anybody being attacked in an aerobics class.

Another thing I must point out a man did attack a female nurse in a corridor at the hospital I was visiting once.
About half a dozen men piled in to stop it including me.
Sadly we could not get to her in time to prevent minor injury as it was a long corridor and the men were well away from the attack when we first saw it.
In that case however I heard the man involved had some mental health problems. No other women were around at the time.

Frank