No longer a Vegan after 11 years

I can't see what anyone is laughing so hard about.
It's pretty straightforward stuff; the kind most people are aware of.
Vegans can run marathons.
Omnivores can get cancer.
Most people start off on easy, fake meat products and transition to eating more healthily.
And?

I gave up vegetarianism after 5 years of continuing ill-health. Despite lots of home-grown fruits and vegetables, with natural fertilisers, and home-made compost. We are without doubt evolved to eat some meat; as I remember from my long-ago Anthropology studies, the ratio among almost all peoples, of pre-industrialised societies was 80:20. The women traditionally grew or gathered the 80% - nuts, seeds, roots, berries, green vegetables, insects, shellfish. The men provided the rest, from the macho, often highly stylised hunting rituals. That ratio seemed to be the optimal for our successful evolution. It was the introduction of farming, cereals, domesticated animals that actually was both our pinnacle of success and our downfall. Tooth decay, altered facial structures from inadequate chewing, reduced jaw size, less efficient breathing ability. Make of it what you will. In the meantime, we live with our chickens, home-made compost, composting loo (human waste, properly and safely composted, makes the most amazing encourager of plant growth - not on food crops, though, for obvious reasons. Home grown fruits and veges, avocados and citrus, olives and figs, locally-produced olive or avoacdo oil. meat twice a week, fish at least once. I've never been so healthy.

Humans exploitation of the natural world has enabled them to live in just about every region of the planet and rapidly destroying it. The current pandemic is but one example and the panic over avian flu. I think this debate has shown anecdotal examples that some people feel great on a non meat, non dairy diet, some don’t. A lot to do with habit, culture i.e. what you are used to.

I've often pondered on what the ultimate aim of veganism is.

I understand they don't want any animal exploitation, but do they want to see animals that are currently bred for their meat and other products to become extinct? Or have them roaming freely and multiplying without check?

They would presumably be against any kind of zoo or safari park for cows, sheep, goats, etc, so is it the aim for the breeds to be no longer around?

Chardy your comments do not undermine my argument. As with everything we can only judge by what we experience. Those vegans who post on GN and occasionally talk on other media, tend, almost entirely to be as I described them. As for those who are just quietly vegan and very different , how can we know about them if they never say anything?

With any eating pattern, you can be healthy on it and unhealthy on it. Generally those who have given thought to what they eat, how they eat and their general lifestyle will be healthier than those that just fill their supermarket trollies with UPFs and ready meals and see convenience as the only quality to look for in food, even if there no animal products in the trolley.

As veganism is currently in fashion, I am sure it will have adherents, temporary ones at least, whose vegan diet will be just as unhealthy as their omniverous one was. But these are only the froth and will fall away with the next food fad.

Really glad to hear that you're feeling better. You've helped the planet a lot during the last 11 years. Well done! Now it's time to take care of you. Hope you stay fit and well.

moderation in everything,what buddhists call the middle way...

I eat fish and poultry, but not usually red meat. I cannot have cheese because it is a migraine trigger.

At the moment I have a broken foot and have been told that I need to up my protein intake to help it heal in the face of the osteoporosis that is also present - so I have ordered some pork and bacon from Tesco and will eat it in the cause of healing.

You say that you also avoided flour. It’s quite a leap to assume that your health problems were from a lack of animal produce when you had also cut out other things which didn’t necessarily need to be avoided. Flour is fortified!

I tried to eat a vegan diet, but struggled with it. I am now vegetarian, so I don’t eat meat, but I do consume eggs (from my own hens, cheese (without animal rennet), yogurt etc and some whole dairy milk. I try not to have too much dairy though (for animal welfare reasons), so I supplement some with oat milk and Kafir yoghurt. I am very healthy. Unless you suffer with a tendency to anaemia, it’s unlikely you need to eat meat. The cruelty in meat (and dairy) production is appalling. Shouldn’t we at least try to minimise our role in that?

Georgesgran

Pedant warning!
It’s bugged me for ages when people say they’re vegan when what they are doing is following a vegan diet. As I understand it - a true vegan doesn’t use, wear, or consume anything from fish/animal/bird sources?

So true, my grandsons partner follows vegan eating principles but does not say vegan, she just says she only eats plant based foods which i suppose frees her to use animal products in other parts of her life

Apparently, Amanda Holden is a vegan and she looks a picture of health .

Mind you, all the cosmetic treatments she has probably contributes to her glowing presence.

It doesn't matter what diet you eat, it has to be balanced or eventually run into problems. We are meat eaters but both my husband and I have significantly reduced the amount of carbs, sugars and fat in our food introducing more fruit and veg. We also cook far more from scratch too. We both feel significantly better. Over Christmas when we let things slide, we both felt dreadful. We weren't always pleasant fragrantly either!!
I read somewhere that blood group type also comes into play with what sort of diet suits you and I do think there might be an element of truth in that although I have never looked into it deeply.
My stepfather swears that the best foods to eat are the ones that grow locally to you in the right seasons. He stuck to that all his life until he found it too difficult to cook from scratch and his food habits changed to include out of season, imported foods. He now seems to have terrible problems with migraines and I can't help wondering whether he might have had a point.
I don't trust the Government (any of them) to tell me what to eat to be healthy. They are often compromised by lobbying from the food industry. In the end it comes down to doing what keeps you feeling healthy. I suspect that means different diets for different people.

I became vegetarian 42 years ago...went through my last pregnancy 41 years ago and produced a super healthy baby. I decided to become vegan 3 years ago. I was very healthy before and while being vegan. I try to keep to a plant based diet but now occasionally use dairy cheese as vegan cheeses are awful. I occasionally have an egg in the summer with salad or binding ingredients in recipes. I wonder if by being vegan you were not having all the necessary vitamins and minerals. I take a multivitamin as it was recommended when I first changed to a mainly plant based diet.

The level of misinformation and ignorance here is astounding. Check out the carbon footprint of your beef and compare it to say tofu before you judge. That B12 “missing” from vegan diets…you know that farmed animals are supplemented with it right? Farmed animals are stuffed with antibiotics, hormones, endless growth enhancers. That’s one of the reasons the western diet is making people obese. I’m sorry to say but your allegiance to meat, dairy and fish consumption is killing the planet. And it’s killing you.

A work colleague had been vegan since her marriage. 5 yrs and two babies later she broke her wrist and was found to have severe osteoporosis at the age of 35 in spite of her 'scientific' diet.

I still can't figure if meat was the first source of food available to humans or vegs. I am inclined to think meat as we hear of humans hunting but can't not seed gathering. If UK was able to provide all that vegetarians/vegans consider as food instead of being flown in from half way around the world I'd give it a go. As it stands will continue as a meat eater based on my impression of neanderthal man.

Can't believe you kept up a self prescribed bad diet for so long despite it making you worse! Glad you're omnivouring again!

I'm definitely an omnivore but we limit red meat to once a week, chicken once a week, and fish once or twice. We try as far as possible to make ethical choices - luckily there are loads of farm shops around here where we can buy local, grass fed meat.

95% of our food is cooked from scratch and wherever possible sourced from small suppliers nearby - my husband usually cycles to shops and brings the food home in a backpack.

I'd like to find a reliable supplier of fresh milk next but that will have to wait until we move home later this year.

As I'm coeliac a lot of produce in the supermarkets is off limits anyway; we tend towards a lower carb diet with (free range, organic, local) eggs our main source of protein.

4allweknow

I still can't figure if meat was the first source of food available to humans or vegs. I am inclined to think meat as we hear of humans hunting but can't not seed gathering. If UK was able to provide all that vegetarians/vegans consider as food instead of being flown in from half way around the world I'd give it a go. As it stands will continue as a meat eater based on my impression of neanderthal man.

Right! Look At the array of teeth humans have. See the flat millstoney ones at the back? they're for grinding and mulching vegetation. Then the sharp pointy fangy ones at the sides top and bottom? They're for tearing/cutting meat most likely and any sort stuff that's tough. Front teeth ? Usually pretty straight In fact dead straight before knives and forks invented due to cutting and sawing motion keeping them looking dead even. we're evolved to cope with anything and everything we can get our gnashers on! It's probably how evolved and adapted so successfully as one source of food disappeared we simply tried and adopted another.Why do people overthink how we are and want to be something we're not? We're already pretty spectacular!

Fernhillnana

The level of misinformation and ignorance here is astounding. Check out the carbon footprint of your beef and compare it to say tofu before you judge. That B12 “missing” from vegan diets…you know that farmed animals are supplemented with it right? Farmed animals are stuffed with antibiotics, hormones, endless growth enhancers. That’s one of the reasons the western diet is making people obese. I’m sorry to say but your allegiance to meat, dairy and fish consumption is killing the planet. And it’s killing you.

Why! Tofu you say? DH hospitalised with sever stomach probs after eating bloody tofu!!! Some are ragingly allergic to the stuff no non runner there........

A vegan diet is no less healthy than an onmi diet. It’s ridiculous to say otherwise. It may not be for everyone but it is better for the planet. Also, it’s really cruel to consume meat and dairy. The animals , organic/local/whatever suffer so much. Long gone are the days of smaller local farms and local slaughter. For the vast majority of these poor creatures it’s unimaginable cruelty and suffering. If people want to carry on consuming them in that knowledge and don’t care about sustainability then that’s up to them! But the negativity around veganism is a joke. I can only think people do it to try to justify their personal choices. Why else would you criticise those that chose compassion and kindness over the misery and suffering of sentient creatures.

Vegans can be perfectly healthy! One of my daughters, my niece and her partner all vegan and the niece has just given birth to her first child, a bouncing 9 lb boy at 41!

I have been a vegetarian for over fifty years and nothing would make me put bits of a dead animal in my mouth again.

I haven't eaten meat for going on 30 years. During that time I ate fish, eggs and dairy but over the past three or four years I've found it distasteful to consume those things too, so I'm moving closer to vegan - except for cheese! I do find it hard to give up cheese. I do have ethical concerns about eating meat, though largely I must say I would simply find it horrible to put lumps of animal corpses in my mouth and eat things that have been bloody. I'm 65 and pretty healthy. I have a good, varied diet and never been deficient in anything.

Another thing ? The BIGGEST problem with the "western " diet is so called refined or as I call them, pretend foods! White plastic bread plastic meats/cheeses. Msg /over salting. Antioxidants emulsifiers PALM OIL!!!!! Over reliance on what mum called"fancy" fad food. Oh but it's too common to have good nutritious fish and chips occasionally, or make a bog standard shepherds pie/spag bol/ sausage and mash! All the la-de-dah gunner grahams have got the west in a stranglehold of crap they convinced them in 50s
(post war after eating frugally only what was available and never been so fit and healthy) was the new "modern" way to eat!non of that good old fashioned plain food for them! Time we all got over our stupid selves and got back to basics.and stopped ranting about killing the planet, stop buying the crap and it will be better all round!

The idea that vegans become so as the result of an ‘ethical’ choice, thus implying that non vegans are morally suspect and ethically inferior is a large part of the reason why I dislike veganism.